MK1 C4GP 1.6HDi No Start- (F5FF, P0868, U1208 etc)

[TawhidAhmed]

Hi All!

My 2008 1.6 HDi EGS C4GP Exclusive has been a non runner for a while, and it has had me racking my brain for a while.

Background:
This was a shared car used for a holiday and intended to be used for more as we graduated, and polished up slowly over this time.
In September last year, I changed the timing and auxillary belt and associated parts. It ran perfectly, and from this point onwards the car wasn't started or moved, as more work was planned.
Around November I attempted to change the injector seals, but had to stop as I realised the injector bores required seat cutting. This was finished in December, but due to a poor battery, the car wasn't restarted.

Current Situation:
In May, I intended to get the car fully running, so I purchased a battery and attempted to start it. The car cranked over well, but wouldn't start, as if a crank sensor was faulty. I considered the possiblity that the injectors may have been damaged, so I tried using another set of injectors to no avail. (I understand that injectors require coding, but this only affects how smooth the engine runs, not if it runs at all).
I got diagbox as I didn't want to use generic readers and make guesses as to what was going on.
I cleared all faults and tried to start the car, with the battery being supported by another car connected by jump leads.
I had the same issue. I tried a BSI reset as this could have solved the issue, but to no avail. I considered the possiblility that this may boil down to the key not being recognised, after I read about the Beep Test, which my key failed on. With the BSI test not working, I went through the reprogramming procedure on Diagbox several times- but it would still fail the beep test.
With code F5FF, I understand this could be due to how the battery is disconnected and reconnected. However, I have tried a BSI reset 7-8 times now to no luck.
The glowplug relay fault is due to me being unable to reconnect the relay fully after taking a look at it. Do you guys struggle with this too? It is impossible!
I also think some of these codes could be related to the fact that this car just hasn't run in almost a year- they could clear once the engine has been run.
The B998 Fault: headlamp washer relay control fault is interesting... as my car is a non Xenon car- and I haven't ever seen the washers run. Is this a ghost fault?
The particular scan I have saved and attached to this post is from when the car wasn't supported by another car's battery, and I had tried to start it endless times, followed by an hour connected to Diagbox. So I think that is why the battery voltage has dropped. Even on a fully charged battery, being supported by a jump battery- the same codes show, and it struggles. Economy mode pops up after just one start in this scenario! (How??)

I don't believe this fault is mechanical. I''ve tried searching forum posts to no luck. All of these codes shouldn't stop a car from starting either from what I have read.

I'm starting to think it may be a BSI problem. During my time working on the car after the original battery was too weak to start it, I foolishly would connect the battery for 30-40 seconds so that I could store parts/tools in the car, lock it, and then disconnect the battery again. I understand that not following the BSI Reset procedure can eventually corrupt the BSI. However- wouldn't a BSI or wiring fault cause absolute mayhem? Such as a Christmas Tree dash, or many more random faults on Diagbox?

I've also had a look at the fuses and they look okay now, although I replaced a few crusty looking ones. No signs of water or water damage in the fuse box or the general vicinity.

I am very baffled now. Any ideas?

[RichardW]

Is the immobiliser in order? You need to look in the live data when you are cranking it, does the engine speed register, does it show cam / crank synch, what is the fuel pressure showing?

[TawhidAhmed]

Thanks for your reply,

It's taken a while to learn how to read live data and save the information, but here we are. I've pored over the data myself and nothing seems obviously wrong. Where there is data for the engine relating to crank speed etc, it is when I am cranking it over. The immobilser looks good, engine speed is registered, as well as crank/cam sync.

I have data for:
Air Intake, BECB Information, Electrical Information, Engine Immobiliser, Fuel Circuit Information, Main Supplies (BSI), Vehicle Immobilisation, Additive, Information-Driving, Instruments- Engine Information, and "Miscellaneous Information"
In the Zip folder below.

I scanned what looked relevant to me, but let me know if I've missed something.

PS: The battery voltage may appear low in some of the reports. I started with a fully charged battery and it lost charge during this session as I was cranking it over whilst scanning the data. Like before, it was supported by another battery.

Hopefully someone can see what is going on here!

[wheeler]

Will it fire with a shot of easy start?

[TawhidAhmed]

Hi Wheeler,
I'll give that a shot tomorrow. If it starts on Easy Start, what would that point the issue towards?

[TawhidAhmed]

Hi All,

The one issue that is bothering me is that it fails the "beep test"- when you see if the car beeps when you open the door whilst leaving the key in ignition after trying to start the car. I've reprogrammed the key to the car several times and it doesn't solve this problem.

However, it looks like the car recognises the key in the data? It will be in the live data I posted above.

I can't make sense of this as failing the beep test means the key just has to be reprogrammed to the car again... which I have done.

Ty, Tawhid

[Doo]

Having just rebuilt wife's DV6 engine, I'm struggling to start the engine too. Last night, Ii pumped the fuel bleeder, heard the fuel running through the return pipe from the filter and tried again. The engine almost caught a couple of times before the starter times out. I switched on again, almost caught again, but the battery voltage had dropped too low by this point and the car surrendered with a headlamp flash and a wipe

So I left it on charge over night and am going to have a go in around an hour.

I too used DiagBox and found the reference pressure for the fuel rail is 306 bar, but the actual pressure was around 16 bar... So a ways to go.

I discovered a loose pipe to the fuel filter, which was weeping fuel. Pushed it until it clicked home. Then discovered I had leaks at the injectors. Turns out I hadn't followed protocol and accidentally put the copper washers on upside down Turns out, the flat edge goes down facing the seat and the bevelled edge faces upwards to the injectors... My bad. Sorted that out and am at the point described first, almost starting, but battery hopelessly flat.

I advise you check all of the above and if you're satisfied it's all correct, pump the bleeder, try to start.

If it eventually starts, all good. But if it keeps coughing, but not catching or starting only using ether, then you've got a bad "O" ring somewhere in the fuel feed system. It only takes a whiff of air squeezing past any of the seals to corrupt the balance.

If that's the case, I believe Citroën sell the complete pipe circuit with bleeder etc. It's simply a case of clipping it all together. However, spray some diesel into each new connector to lubricate the new seals prior to pushing them home.

[RichardW]

I recall Lighty saying that he often had to tow start DV6 engines when the head had been apart as the lifters didn't refill and there wasn't enough cranking speed to get them to pressurise and open the valves. Bit difficult to tow start an EGS, but a bit of easy start might just get enough speed to get it going.

[wheeler]

If it starts on Easy Start, what would that point the issue towards?

Well it gives you an idea that the engine is OK(ish) mechanically & the easy start is just fuel so if it starts with this then it wasnt getting any fuel.

The 'BEEP' test is not an accurate test of the immobiliser system/key recognition. I have tested this on some models & some only need to see any transponder to make the beep, even if its not the right one coded to that car. Anyway you can clearly see in live data that the engine ECU is unlocked & the key is programmed & detected.
The beep may not be operational if the car has went into eco mode.

[TawhidAhmed]

Doo, RichardW, wheeler, thank you!

I've been quite busy towards the end of the summer but I managed to get some time aside to dedicate a few hours to the C4GP.

I rechecked the fuel system and it wasn't leaking anywhere, including the injectors.

Your ideas were correct, easy start did start the car eventually. After 10 minutes of running, the engine was running silky smooth.

I'm amazed the lifters draining of oil can totally stop the engine running! It sounded like zero compression to me.

The key also works perfectly. So the economy mode must've stopped the beep as suggested. Before this post, I believed the BEEP test was an accurate test, after this... maybe not.

The codes have been cleared and haven't reappeared either. So all of the issues did indeed stem to the car not starting for so long.

I hope this thread will help someone in the same situation as me, as I was convinced there was some sort of expensive electrical issue.

The car will go for an MOT soon.... and I will definitely be back with more questions!