AL4 fault diagnosing
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AL4 fault diagnosing
Hi, My Xantia Mk2 Auto has an AL4 gearbox which has symptoms the internet tells me a likely to be the valve controlling the Torque Convertor Clutch. I'm jpretty satisfied that's accurate given the sym,ptoms but before getting a new valve I'd like to check the control signal to the existing valve, just in case the problem isn't mechanical. I've got a guide to which pins to check line resistance across but I'm struggling with locating the '33 way grey connector' and the Transmission ECU. Can anyone tell me where these are, please?
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
- xantia_v6
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
The 33GR connector is on the top of the transmission itself I think. The ECU is probably mounted under the battery tray (remove the battery and tray to access it).
Note that if your transmission has not previously had the solenoids replaced, then you MUST have the ECU software updated to work with the improved replacement solenoids.
Note that if your transmission has not previously had the solenoids replaced, then you MUST have the ECU software updated to work with the improved replacement solenoids.
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- Posts: 65
- Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 14:33
- Location: Near Lincoln
- My Cars: Renault 16 - my first car bought secondhand in 1980. Lasted a couple of months before dreadful rust brought it to an end.
Renault 18 estate petrol. Bought in 1981. only new car I've ever owned and only because it was tax free to Forces in Germany. Lasted 18 months before accident write off.
Renault 18 saloon petrol. bought in 1988. lasted 3 years before accident and repair cost ended it.
Xantia Esate TD. Bought in 2006. First Citroen and bought because of the suspension and potential to run on veg oil. Apart from a stint owning a doomed C5 estate I've owned nothing but Xantia TD saloons and estates since. All have Bosch pumps so veg oil since 2006 for me. - x 3
Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Thanks Xantia_V6, I'll have a look tomorrow. Should have mentioned I've done the initial step of an oil change, putting 8 new litres through it in 2 go's, so I'm happy the oil is okay. Changing the valve shouldn't be too sccary as the access to it is pretty good on the Xantia. As regards the new/old valve types my money's on it having the original valves so my first hope will be to find someone selling the 'white connector' ones, af anyone still does. Otherwise a garage will be making a little money out of me.
Tom
Tom
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
- DHallworth
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Is it a simple change of settings using Lexia to reflect the new solenoids in the gearbox or is it an actual update that needs to be carried out to the ECU?
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-
- Posts: 65
- Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 14:33
- Location: Near Lincoln
- My Cars: Renault 16 - my first car bought secondhand in 1980. Lasted a couple of months before dreadful rust brought it to an end.
Renault 18 estate petrol. Bought in 1981. only new car I've ever owned and only because it was tax free to Forces in Germany. Lasted 18 months before accident write off.
Renault 18 saloon petrol. bought in 1988. lasted 3 years before accident and repair cost ended it.
Xantia Esate TD. Bought in 2006. First Citroen and bought because of the suspension and potential to run on veg oil. Apart from a stint owning a doomed C5 estate I've owned nothing but Xantia TD saloons and estates since. All have Bosch pumps so veg oil since 2006 for me. - x 3
Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
David, you beat me to it. Yes, I found the Transmission ECU when I was clearing the way to remove the Hydraulic distributor. I've checked the solenoids and the 2 big ones, oil pressure and Torque converter clutch, are dead. I'veordered new ones but yes, my box had the original white connectors on the 2 big ones. So David's question above is from me too, does anyone know if the update instructions already part of the Lexia software?
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
-
- Posts: 65
- Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 14:33
- Location: Near Lincoln
- My Cars: Renault 16 - my first car bought secondhand in 1980. Lasted a couple of months before dreadful rust brought it to an end.
Renault 18 estate petrol. Bought in 1981. only new car I've ever owned and only because it was tax free to Forces in Germany. Lasted 18 months before accident write off.
Renault 18 saloon petrol. bought in 1988. lasted 3 years before accident and repair cost ended it.
Xantia Esate TD. Bought in 2006. First Citroen and bought because of the suspension and potential to run on veg oil. Apart from a stint owning a doomed C5 estate I've owned nothing but Xantia TD saloons and estates since. All have Bosch pumps so veg oil since 2006 for me. - x 3
Can Lexia Update AL4 Solenoids
Hi, All, this follows on from a post I recently made about sorting out my AL4 Auto box in my Xantia. I've got new oil pressure and torque converter clutch solenoids but my originals were white plastic connectors, these are the newer black ones. I understand I have to let the ECU know of the change as they communicate at a different signal speed. David in Glasgow has kindly offered to do it with his Lexia but neither of us know for certain if this update information can be set in the ECU with the Lexia as it stands. Does anyone out there know if the Lexia software can achieve this update or is this something I'm going to have to pay a citroen dealer to effect for me?
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
- xantia_v6
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Re: Can Lexia Update AL4 Solenoids
Old updates like that one were originally shipped on the Lexia update disks. In Lexia, there should be a text page with a list of available version upgrades, by car model. If the upgrade you require is listed, then it might work.
-
- Posts: 65
- Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 14:33
- Location: Near Lincoln
- My Cars: Renault 16 - my first car bought secondhand in 1980. Lasted a couple of months before dreadful rust brought it to an end.
Renault 18 estate petrol. Bought in 1981. only new car I've ever owned and only because it was tax free to Forces in Germany. Lasted 18 months before accident write off.
Renault 18 saloon petrol. bought in 1988. lasted 3 years before accident and repair cost ended it.
Xantia Esate TD. Bought in 2006. First Citroen and bought because of the suspension and potential to run on veg oil. Apart from a stint owning a doomed C5 estate I've owned nothing but Xantia TD saloons and estates since. All have Bosch pumps so veg oil since 2006 for me. - x 3
Re: Can Lexia Update AL4 Solenoids
Thanks. I'll let David know and he might be able to check if this is on his version.
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
- DHallworth
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- x 125
Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Sorry to bump this again...
Tom needs his ECU sorting after changing the solenoids in his gearbox.
Does anyone know if it's a simple setting that needs changing in the ECU settings to reflect it's now got the Borg Warner solenoids or is it an ECU update that's required to let the ECU know they're fitted?
Thanks,
David.
Tom needs his ECU sorting after changing the solenoids in his gearbox.
Does anyone know if it's a simple setting that needs changing in the ECU settings to reflect it's now got the Borg Warner solenoids or is it an ECU update that's required to let the ECU know they're fitted?
Thanks,
David.
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Hi David
If you have fitted the new BorG Warner electrovalves then the ECU needs new software downloading, or there is the risk of destruction of the gearbox.
Citroen state:
Replacement of a hydraulic block or the solenoid valves alone:
ESSENTIAL:
If you have fitted the new BorG Warner electrovalves then the ECU needs new software downloading, or there is the risk of destruction of the gearbox.
Citroen state:
Replacement of a hydraulic block or the solenoid valves alone:
ESSENTIAL:
- Observe the safety and cleanliness recommendations.
- After the exchange, download the automatic gearbox ECU using the diagnostic tool equipped with CD 27 or later (follow the diagnostic tool procedure).
- Engrave the 2 letters BW after the identification no. on the rear casing of the automatic gearbox Example (20 TP 94 B W).
- Change the modulation electrovalves in pairs.
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Marc
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Thanks Marc,
My Lexia software is an early version and as far as I'm aware didn't have any of the additional CD's loaded on.
I do also have a separate laptop running Diagbox Version 07.15.
Quite happy to help Tom out having a look for him but I've never done an ECU update using my kit and don't want him to have to drive through here for no reason before his ECU is updated now he's fitted the solenoids already.
My Lexia software is an early version and as far as I'm aware didn't have any of the additional CD's loaded on.
I do also have a separate laptop running Diagbox Version 07.15.
Quite happy to help Tom out having a look for him but I've never done an ECU update using my kit and don't want him to have to drive through here for no reason before his ECU is updated now he's fitted the solenoids already.
'98 Xantia Activa V6
'00 XM V6 Exclusive
'09 C5 2.7 HDi Exclusive
‘10 C5 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'12 C6 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'15 C4 BlueHDi Feel
'00 XM V6 Exclusive
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
I see the predicament David. As you can appreciate, I can’t advise if it would already be on your version of Diagbox, so it may be better for this specific operation to get a dealer to update it for the cost of a diagnostic, unless anyone else can confirm the software update will be included on that version.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
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- Posts: 65
- Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 14:33
- Location: Near Lincoln
- My Cars: Renault 16 - my first car bought secondhand in 1980. Lasted a couple of months before dreadful rust brought it to an end.
Renault 18 estate petrol. Bought in 1981. only new car I've ever owned and only because it was tax free to Forces in Germany. Lasted 18 months before accident write off.
Renault 18 saloon petrol. bought in 1988. lasted 3 years before accident and repair cost ended it.
Xantia Esate TD. Bought in 2006. First Citroen and bought because of the suspension and potential to run on veg oil. Apart from a stint owning a doomed C5 estate I've owned nothing but Xantia TD saloons and estates since. All have Bosch pumps so veg oil since 2006 for me. - x 3
Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Thanks Guys, been following what's been said. I'll call the Citroeb dealer here (That's Stirling for me) and see what they say and what they charge. Probably have to just grin and bear it but it always disappoints when I very rarely have to resort to garage services.
Tom
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
1998 Xantia Mk2 1.9TD Saloon
1996 Xantia 1.9TD Estate Mk1
(Previously Old Guy's)
- GiveMeABreak
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C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
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XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
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XM 2.0 SX Polar White
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GS 1220 Geranium Red
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GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow - x 5711
Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
Best to drive it for as little as possible until you can get it sorted Tom. Also as you can see, the following procedures need to be done:
The dealer should be aware, but as this is an older gearbox by today's standards, make sure they are aware of the technical info and procedures they need to follow after the ECU download.
The following state what needs to be done and for which operation, but also note the important point about the engine ECU update after the gearbox ECU update!
ECU Downloading
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
To perform a downloading operation, follow the diagnostic equipment procedure.
Initialising the Throttle Pedal
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
Configuration
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
For configuration follow the diagnostic equipment procedure.
As far as the last procedure goes, 'Configuration', you may need to just check that the options are the same as they were - as this isn't a new ECU.
So it may be worth your while with the dealer visit to get all the above done at the same time.
The dealer should be aware, but as this is an older gearbox by today's standards, make sure they are aware of the technical info and procedures they need to follow after the ECU download.
The following state what needs to be done and for which operation, but also note the important point about the engine ECU update after the gearbox ECU update!
ECU Downloading
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
- Updating the gearbox ECU
- Adapting the gearbox ECU to a change in the engine ECU
- Initialisation of the pedal
- Configuration
- A road test
To perform a downloading operation, follow the diagnostic equipment procedure.
Initialising the Throttle Pedal
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
- Control unit replacement
- Replace the gearbox
- Update by downloading
- Accelerator cable adjustment
Configuration
This operation is to be performed in the following cases:
- Control unit replacement
- Downloading of the control unit
- "Shift lock" gear lever locking
- Air conditioning
- OBD output (L4 emission standard)
For configuration follow the diagnostic equipment procedure.
As far as the last procedure goes, 'Configuration', you may need to just check that the options are the same as they were - as this isn't a new ECU.
So it may be worth your while with the dealer visit to get all the above done at the same time.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
- xantia_v6
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Re: AL4 fault diagnosing
The Lexia that I use with my Xantia and XM is I think v7.62 and it was installed from CD 42. It offers the AL4 solenoid update, but as my car's don't have that transmission, I don't know if the download works.