Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

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SBurdett2020
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Joined: 08 Jun 2022, 17:58

Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by SBurdett2020 »

Hi all,

Just want to run you through an issue with my car currently.

Purchased a 65 plate, 1.6L Diesel Citroen DS3 around May last year from CarStore Coventry, with approximately 63,000 miles done.

Within 2 weeks of purchasing the car and driving down to Norwich I received the fault 'Engine fault: Have the vehicle repaired' along with another fault with the UREA light on and the countdown from 600 miles.

Purchased 10L of AD Blue and filled the tank up, yet the errors still appeared.

Had a few separate issues and wasn't happy with CarStore in general, so threatened to get my money back and attached photos of the warning lights / documented the issues I'd had. They informed me I could take the car to the Norwich branch who would make any repairs and return the vehicle to me, as all their cars come with a 3 month warranty.

CarStore Norwich supposedly could not fix the problem and the car went to a Citroen Dealership. Received the car back a few weeks later with the advice that the fix had been done. Naively, I didn't get the details of the fix or look into the issue more which in hindsight I wished I had.

Fast forward 10 months, and the same fault 'Engine fault: Have the vehicle repaired' has resurfaced.

Took it to be diagnosed and received the following error fault codes;

U0118 - Multiplexed Additive Pump
P1434 - Multiplexed Additive Pump: Pump Fault
P1435 - Multiplexed Additive Pump: Can Network Fault or Pump Fault

In my opinion, this shows that the fault itself was never fixed in the first place. CarStore have given me the spew that 10 months have passed, there's no way it can be attributed and that's why they advise you to take extended warranty etc.

However, believe it or not they are very happy to help resolve the issue - which for a price of £1,500 just to fit the tank and then send to Citroen for a further £150 I'm very sure they are.. Alternatively the dealership have quoted £1,100 for the part alone, and can't give a full quote until they've diagnosed it themselves at further cost to me.

My argument to them is that had they performed the fix needed at the time, I wouldn't be in this position now - with no warranty and that to me anyway it is quite clearly the same fault.

As CarStore took the car in and received the invoice, the Citroen dealership can't give me any details to what the repair was. I've asked for the exact copy from CarStore and currently still waiting, however they did advise on the phone all they did was reset the fault with Citroen, no actual repairs.

Really stuck on where to go from here and looking as though I have no choice but to pay a large bill to fix this. My last port of call potentially is phoning Citroen customer service and putting a complaint in, but not sure that will get me anywhere to be honest.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
RichardW
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by RichardW »

Sorry to hear that. Thus is looking like a fault with the particulate filter additive, not the ad blue tank, so if the original repair was adblue related, then this is separate. Although faults with the additive tank are not unknown they are rarer than adblue ones, I'd be tempted to fit a used tank in this case.
wheeler
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by wheeler »

SBurdett2020 wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 18:15


In my opinion, this shows that the fault itself was never fixed in the first place. CarStore have given me the spew that 10 months have passed, there's no way it can be attributed and that's why they advise you to take extended warranty etc.
I know it's not really what you want to hear but I would have to agree with the garage/dealer here, They done a repair & there was no sign of the fault re occurring for 10 months, I think is could be safely said whatever they had done solved that issue.
Engine Fault: Have vehicle repaired is a very generic warning message that could mean loads of different things. Even if this warning came back on a week later it could still be something different. The last time there was also an adblue message, this time there are only fault codes for the diesel additive system which is a completely separate system from the SCR which is what the adblue is used for. Its kind of looking like the car may need a new Eolys tank (not to be confused with the Adblue/urea tank which is a completely different thing.
SBurdett2020
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by SBurdett2020 »

wheeler wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 06:51
SBurdett2020 wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 18:15


In my opinion, this shows that the fault itself was never fixed in the first place. CarStore have given me the spew that 10 months have passed, there's no way it can be attributed and that's why they advise you to take extended warranty etc.
I know it's not really what you want to hear but I would have to agree with the garage/dealer here, They done a repair & there was no sign of the fault re occurring for 10 months, I think is could be safely said whatever they had done solved that issue.
Engine Fault: Have vehicle repaired is a very generic warning message that could mean loads of different things. Even if this warning came back on a week later it could still be something different. The last time there was also an adblue message, this time there are only fault codes for the diesel additive system which is a completely separate system from the SCR which is what the adblue is used for. Its kind of looking like the car may need a new Eolys tank (not to be confused with the Adblue/urea tank which is a completely different thing.

Thanks for your reply. The reason I’m querying it 10 months later is because the garage have come back and told it’s the Ad Blue tank and pump that needs replacing, not the Eolys tank, if it’s the Eolys then I agree completely different issue, but as the garage are telling me it needs a new AdBlue tank and pump my argument to them is that it should’ve been repaired initially when the fault came through, as there was clearly an issue and the tank wouldn’t have gone wrong 10 months later
wheeler
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by wheeler »

The 2 different systems can cause confusion with people that are not familiar them, even garages. Was it a Citroen/DS dealer that done the diagnostics? If thats all the fault codes then there is nothing to suggest it’s anything to do with the adblue system.
SBurdett2020 wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 08:58
the tank wouldn’t have gone wrong 10 months later
I take it your not overly familiar with PSA adblue tanks then? :lol:
RichardW
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by RichardW »

wheeler wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 09:27
SBurdett2020 wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 08:58
the tank wouldn’t have gone wrong 10 months later
I take it your not overly familiar with PSA adblue tanks then? :lol:
:rofl2: :rofl2: (with apologies to the OP who is facing a big bill :( )
SBurdett2020
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by SBurdett2020 »

wheeler wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 09:27
The 2 different systems can cause confusion with people that are not familiar them, even garages. Was it a Citroen/DS dealer that done the diagnostics? If thats all the fault codes then there is nothing to suggest it’s anything to do with the adblue system.
SBurdett2020 wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 08:58
the tank wouldn’t have gone wrong 10 months later
I take it your not overly familiar with PSA adblue tanks then? :lol:
Hmm maybe it’s the Car Store garage getting confused, although would be slightly worrying getting them to fix it if they can’t even diagnose the right problem :shock:

And yeah aware of the tank issue, but I mean if it was repaired / replaced 10 months ago I’m sure it couldn’t require repairing again..
admiral51
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by admiral51 »

Just a thought but the OP needs to get a copy of the work already done at the Citroen dealership, the dealership will have a record and as he owned the car at the time of the work being done he should be able to request a copy detailing what was done, he may not be able to see the price paid as it was under warranty from a 3rd party but it was work done on his vehicle.
Once that information is obtained we can then see what was done and move forward.
If the fault is the same as before any work carried out should come with a warranty regardless of who paid for it?
admiral51
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by admiral51 »

Just re read the OP and i would go back to both CarStore and the Dealership via email, copy them both in to it requesting detailed information on the work carried out on a vehicle he owned at the time the work was carried regardless of who paid for it, the work has been done and the Dealership has a legal duty to uphold the warranty they give on work/parts done.
I would also send an email to Citroen UK and copy the original email sent to CarStore and the Dealership in requesting a case number as a back up so you have a proper paper trail.

My boy bought a 2nd/3rd hand Peugeot that had paperwork to say the clutch had been changed from a non Dealership, when he went to sell it approx 8 months later he could not find the paperwork for the clutch, contacted the seller and within 24 hrs he had an email of the document stating mileage, date, work done and the warranty values for mileage since the clutch was changed. So it is not impossible just you get fobbed off with legal s**te ( and the work was done before he bought the car :) )

Colin
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by admiral51 »

OP you need to remember any diagnostic check done in a dealership will be recorded, Citroen UK will have access to this so do not give up as any work done and warranty the Dealership may or may not have given to CarStore will have been preceded by a Diagnostic session and that has a trace.

Good luck and fingers crossed you get it sorted but do it the savvy way and bear in mind it could be a totally different issue but you will not know that until you see what was done previously.

Colin
SBurdett2020
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by SBurdett2020 »

admiral51 wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 18:47
OP you need to remember any diagnostic check done in a dealership will be recorded, Citroen UK will have access to this so do not give up as any work done and warranty the Dealership may or may not have given to CarStore will have been preceded by a Diagnostic session and that has a trace.

Good luck and fingers crossed you get it sorted but do it the savvy way and bear in mind it could be a totally different issue but you will not know that until you see what was done previously.

Colin
Thanks Colin, CarStore said they were getting back in touch with Citroen and would send the details today. Which they’ve not done… so will be giving them a call first thing for the details because as you say I can’t do much without it. If it’s a different issue it’s fine understand that I will need this replaced, just the fact they’re telling me it’s an AdBlue Tank/Pump issue and I had a problem with the tank a year ago seems to be interlinked.

But as you say I can’t do much until I’ve got the information from last year which Citroen can’t give directly to me as even though I was the owner of the vehicle I wasn’t the customer when repairs were carried out
SBurdett2020
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by SBurdett2020 »

So just as an update on this. CarStore have got back to me this morning and quoted £1469.92 for parts and Labour replacing the AdBlue tank

So unless they’ve misdiagnosed the issue themselves seems to be this over the additive tank.

Copy of the invoice direct from Citroen was also sent where they’ve listed this as the issue:

“Investigate EML light on UREA warning, carried out system reset procedure via connected node”
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by GiveMeABreak »

All that mans is Citroen have connected to their servers to reset the Adblue warning - nothing else. So it may appear that there is a fault with the tank necessitating a new tank and the requisite updating, hence the quote you have been given.
RichardW
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by RichardW »

SBurdett2020 wrote:
08 Jun 2022, 18:15

Took it to be diagnosed and received the following error fault codes;

U0118 - Multiplexed Additive Pump
P1434 - Multiplexed Additive Pump: Pump Fault
P1435 - Multiplexed Additive Pump: Can Network Fault or Pump Fault
If these are really the faults, then this is NOT an adblue fault - it is a fault with the eolys DPF additive tank. This is well beyond the warranty period, so I would ignore CarStore, and get it to someone that actually knows what they are doing, and can give you an objective view, and actually test properly, as it may not be a tank fault, it could be a fault in the wiring. As I said above, in this case I would risk a second hand additive tank - however in fact the additive reservoir looks like it might 'only' be around £220 (and £80 seems to be the going rate for a used one on e-bay).
wheeler
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Re: Dreaded AD Blue tank / pump problem - advice appreciated

Post by wheeler »

Agreed this appears to be nothing to do with the SCR/Adblue system, Unless we are only getting part of the report?? These fault codes are referring to the Eolys tank/pump assembly.
Sound like the garage is getting the systems confused. Not many manufacturers use a 'wet' DPF system with Eolys, Only really PSA & a few others that share engines or vehicle platforms. Because of this many garages may not even have heard of Eolys.

Interesting that they say the system system has been 'reset' in connected mode. Resetting/reinitialising the DeNox system is done completely offline & needs no live connection.
Its meant to be done after replacing any of the components of the DeNox system however its always worth a shot first, If this isn't successful you would normally know within a few days or couple of hundred miles so the fact it has been 10 months I think we can safely say there was no issue with the urea tank at the time.