Citroen C5 X7 intermittent stuck in D3 and flashing snowflake

[Its-Friday-Somewhere]

Hi everyone.
I just bought a Citroen C5 x7 2009 tourer. 2.0 diesel with 6 speed automatic gearbox. It has about 200,000km on the clock. When I drove it recently after a refuel I saw "gearbox faulty" and "service" alerts on the dash. It also showed a small flashing snowflake. When I drove it, it seemed to be stuck in D3 and sounded very rough. Moving to semiautomatic did not allow me to move into higher or lower gears. Turned it off and on again during the 30 min journey and had no effect. Still flashing snowflake and gearbox faulty. After and hour sitting outside a friends house got in and no snowflake and no "gearbox error". Got trailered to an gearbox specialist who said there were no faults on the gearbox and it seemed fine. They suspected an electrical issue with the ecu and recommended an auto electrician look at it. I haven't got to one yet. I scanned with my bluetooth scanners while the car was driving fine and got the codes P1163 and P1350. After a couple of ignition on off cycles the snowflake appeared again. I scanned again and got the same 2 faults again and some additional faults. P1351, P1727, P1605. I need to get an idea if this is an electrical issue or a mechanical one. Any ideas? Thanks.

[cit-rotti]

P1163 Fault missing recalibration of accelerometer.
P1350 Glow plug relay: short circuit to ground or open circuit Electrical fault on glow plug control: overtemperature, DC to ground
P1351 Glow plug relay: coherence test (open contact) Electrical fault on glow plug control: open circuit on battery
P1605 Driver will output
P1727 Torque signal test Plausibility error Coherence between received torques (CHTA)

Your scanner is a good device for a fault readout of the injection control - but for all faults in all ECUs - especially in the automatic transmission - a DIAGBOX is required.

It must be clarified whether permanent errors or only temporary errors are displayed.

Is the battery/alternator/voltage regulation OK - ECUs do not like undervoltage.

Is there good/new oil in the automatic gearbox - 200000km without fresh oil is very borderline.

Greetings Wolfgang

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi everyone.
I just bought a Citroen C5 x7 2009 tourer. 2.0 diesel with 6 speed automatic gearbox. It has about 200,000km on the clock. When I drove it recently after a refuel I saw "gearbox faulty" and "service" alerts on the dash. It also showed a small flashing snowflake. When I drove it, it seemed to be stuck in D3 and sounded very rough. Moving to semiautomatic did not allow me to move into higher or lower gears. Turned it off and on again during the 30 min journey and had no effect. Still flashing snowflake and gearbox faulty. After and hour sitting outside a friends house got in and no snowflake and no "gearbox error". Got trailered to an gearbox specialist who said there were no faults on the gearbox and it seemed fine. They suspected an electrical issue with the ecu and recommended an auto electrician look at it. I haven't got to one yet. I scanned with my bluetooth scanners while the car was driving fine and got the codes P1163 and P1350. After a couple of ignition on off cycles the snowflake appeared again. I scanned again and got the same 2 faults again and some additional faults. P1351, P1727, P1605. I need to get an idea if this is an electrical issue or a mechanical one. Any ideas? Thanks.

Pop your VIN up and I'll be able to provide some more information for you.

[Its-Friday-Somewhere]

Thanks guys. The VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].

I'm charging the battery now because I read that can cause issues too.

Also the car has aftermarket alloy wheels with 255/50 r17 tyres. The recommended tyres from the door pillar are 255/55 r17. I see that wrong size tyres can cause issues too but the number 50 vs 55 refers to tyre width not diameter. It seems unlikely that this could cause an issue?

Thanks for helping.

[GiveMeABreak]

That's not actually the case as the 50 or 55 refers to the sidewall height as a percentage of the tyre width (aspect ratio).

Your vehicle needs to know the wheel / tyre sizes as this can affect the ESP and Gearbox operation which can throw ESP errors and may affect your mileage.

Back to the fault codes:

Fault Code:	P1163
Description of Fault:	Injectors control: Problem with resetting of the injector down time. The fault comes up if there has been no resetting for more than 5000 km.
Conditions for Fault to clear:	12 resettings
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:	Torque reduction at high load due to failure of the accelerometer.
Symptoms:	Lack of power
Suspect Areas:	Fuel pressure sensor Electrical harness Connector Fuel return circuit clogged high pressure fuel pump Engine ECU

Fault P1727 concerns a CAN engine torque information coherence fault.

Fault P1605 is not coming up as a valid fault code against this vehicle

Fault P1351 is Pre-heating relay circuit: Coherence,-Relay supplied and glow plugs not supplied. The information from the preheating control unit indicates that the relay is open even though the ECU commands the closing of the relay for 5 seconds. This can be caused by the Pre-heater plugs, the Electrical harness or the Pre/post heating relay.

[Its-Friday-Somewhere]

Thank for that Marc. And thanks for reminding me, of courses 255 is width and 55 is percentage of width in height. That might be causing the d3 snowflake issue and the codes look like separate issues.

[Mantisman]

Hi "It's Friday Somewhwere",
Did you ever solve this problem?
My 2008 C5 Tourer X7 has just started doing something very similar. I get the gearbox faulty warning and the flashing snowflake but then the engine cuts out and won't start again. If I leave it for a few minutes, it seems to re-set itself and then starts and drives fine. The auto gearbox works absolutely fine.
Regards,
Ian

[seanrx]

Hi "It's Friday Somewhwere",
Did you ever solve this problem?
My 2008 C5 Tourer X7 has just started doing something very similar. I get the gearbox faulty warning and the flashing snowflake but then the engine cuts out and won't start again. If I leave it for a few minutes, it seems to re-set itself and then starts and drives fine. The auto gearbox works absolutely fine.
Regards,
Ian

The battery, can you load test it?
Often, reduced capacity can be a problem even if it does hold a charge. And a stop/start function can be a real drain.

[xantia_v6]

My 2008 C5 Tourer X7 has just started doing something very similar. I get the gearbox faulty warning and the flashing snowflake but then the engine cuts out and won't start again. If I leave it for a few minutes, it seems to re-set itself and then starts and drives fine. The auto gearbox works absolutely fine.
Regards,
Ian

You really need to get the fault codes read for the engine and transmission. Otherwise it is just guesswork.

[Mantisman]

Ok, thanks xantia-v6.
I'm going up to see my indie mechanic today. I'll post the fault codes when I get them.
Regards,
Ian

[Mantisman]

Hi all, just been up to see my indie mechanic and there are quite a few fault codes:

P0336 - Engine speed signal
P1671 - Injection CPU cruise control
P0337 - Engine speed signal - short circuit or open circuit
P0183 - Diesel temperature - short circuit or open circuit
P1351 - Glow plugs - 3 post heating circuit
P0727 - Engine speed signal - Value received incorrect
U0727 - No communication with engine CPU
The car VIN is - VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

He checked the connections on the engine ECU (3 multipin connectors on a unit underneath a cover on the right hand side of the engine bay. Just behind the battery) and they are all clean and seem fine. He didn't check the connections on the gearbox ECU.

Can anyone please help wit this problem please?

Regards,

Ian

[GiveMeABreak]

Many of these faults (P0336, P1671, P0337, P0727) are related to the engine speed sensor. I would replace this, clear the faults and go for a drive, then re-run the test and see what is remaining. Your mechanic should know what and where the engine speed sensor is.

[Mantisman]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for your quick and helpful reply. I'll let my mechanic know.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

Regards,

Ian

[Mantisman]

Hi Marc,

Is the engine speed sensor you mentioned the Citroen part number 1920 GJ?

Regards,

Ian

[GiveMeABreak]

That's correct. Be forewarned - don't get cheap sensors if you can avoid it. Stick to a good known brand, as cheap aftermarket ones including many from ECP can be faulty or fail very quickly.