C4 Engine & Box Out...

[Doo]

Hi all, well as per the subject, the deed is done! I am astonished at how easy everything was! Even the exhaust clamp...

I think I need a crank seal and I'll need a rocker gasket (rubber). Is there anything else these need as a matter of course? Bearing in mind I'm going to be doing the timing belt, water pump, etc.

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You'll have to excuse the mess. Just got the plans drawn up for the extension, which means all the tools will live through the back along with benches, parts and whatnot. The wooden ramps I made are absolutely brilliant! They hold the Range Rover too and make it so much easier to get underneath, what with my sore bits and inability to bend some days. I even jacked the car with the jack on the ramp to install the axle stands so I could get the wheels & hubs off to remove the drive shafts.

I'm in bits today, but delighted at the same time. Can you imagine the bill for getting the clutch & timing belt, etc, done at the garage

[Huskyxantia]

Over 1600 just to do clutch ... while your engine is out clean the oil feed pipe from the turbo to the engine as sometimes the little filter can get clogged which can damage the turbo

[Doo]

Over 1600 just to do clutch ... while your engine is out clean the oil feed pipe from the turbo to the engine as sometimes the little filter can get clogged which can damage the turbo

It's had 15 years on the original turbo, I think if that little gauze was clogged I would be on my umpteenth turbo... I know about that little pain in the donkeys cousin. I've watched clowns change turbos and blow them up all over again because they didn't listen. But thanks, still too many don't know (or care ) about that. Good concept, just needs changed every so often.

So if it's a case of just do the usual bits, then I'll just do the usual bits. Did the crank seals on my Range Rover V8 and it's STILL not leaking They leak just because

I can't tell if it's the crank seal or the sump pan gasket, but something is weeping and being blown in the wind. I'll take the hot pressure washer to it (130 degrees C ought to clean the mess Might even paint it a little too, prevent rust and all that.

I shall keep everyone up to date with my progress... Or lack of

[Doo]

Well, I started on Wednesday last and ........ the injectors solidly REFUSE to give up their position!

I've had 2ft levers, swearing, twisting with (24mm) spanner and been soaking them umpteen times daily with paraffin, diesel, WD40, WD equivalent and NOTHING is working!!!

I borrowed a slide hammer, welded a specially made cage to allow the slide hammer to give it 100%, but all that happens is the metal gets bent out of shape, despite tempering (heated to glowing, quenched in oil, heated again to glowing, quenched again, then heated and allowed to cool) but STILL these bu66ers REFUSE to budge




I bought a Sealey injector removal kit, but it involves stripping the injector in place, winding a screw into the body and pulling it out. Then they advise replacing with a reconditioned set!!!

WTH would I do that when ALL I wanted to do was remove them in order to gain access to the timing chain

So, it's going back and I'll see if I can find a device that resembles my "cage" so I can wallop the beejeebus out of it with the slide hammer

DV6. Great engine. SHYTE design for the injectors Cant even get the head off until you get the injectors out

I'll report back.........

[wheeler]

Is there something wrong with the chain that you want to replace? they are normally trouble free & don't need routine replacement.
Loads of manufacturers have this problem with the injectors. The old 2.2 HDi DW12's fitted to the mk1 C5 were really bad for this & i've seen quite a few engines scrapped for this.
Did you try Mr Muscle oven cleaner foam? i've had some good success soaking with this before but it can get quite messy.

[Doo]

Is there something wrong with the chain that you want to replace? they are normally trouble free & don't need routine replacement.
Loads of manufacturers have this problem with the injectors. The old 2.2 HDi DW12's fitted to the mk1 C5 were really bad for this & i've seen quite a few engines scrapped for this.
Did you try Mr Muscle oven cleaner foam? i've had some good success soaking with this before but it can get quite messy.

Not had trouble with the chain, but a friend had a car with a little bit more miles and the chain was rattling it's tits off before the engine expired. So I decided since the engine is out... I've definitely had more enjoyment being soaked to the skin operating a machine for a roofer who was dressed for the weather whereas I wasn't, resulting in me being soaked through and unable to come down for over two hours while it rained enough to fill the entire UK at a depth of 27ft.... I digress Suffice to say, while I hate the absolute arse bagging this is causing, I would hate to go through this same hassle, engine in car having tken the trouble to have done everything except the chain

Anyway, Arnold Clark Auto Parts has been open up our way for 3yrs! First I knew about it was a couple of days ago when a mate told me about them. Anyway, I went in today to ask about cost of copper washers, nylon protective washers, rubber seals, etc (many bits) and was floored at the cost... £113 + VAT However, the chap was extremely helpful, gave me a massive trade discount so the new price is £50 (although I cant recall is that with or plus VAT, but even so, that is an astounding rebate!!!! ).

So, a couple of days to wait until those come in, same for the new slide hammer tool I ordered and some fresh oil and filter will be order of the day.

But WHAT a carry on these bloomin injectors are!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doo]

Apologies for the long absence... Life happened!

Anyway, the injectors wouldn't move no matter what we did. So in the end we screwed them out, causing some damage. I have purchased 2 rejuvenated injectors from Tony at Darwen Diesels in Blackburn. I have to say the man was an absolute legend to deal with and nothing was too much bother

However, the tale doesn't end there! The injectors spun out, leaving the nuts and the nozzles.... The nozzles fell out once I got the head off, but the nuts were still jammed solid down inside the sleeves That took days of drilling using a mag drill cutter bit adapted and a welded shank to scrape the nuts out of the sleeves.

Then I dropped the head at the local precision engine specialist to clean up the seats so the new injectors will work.

Now, I am waiting to visit the local parts shop to see if they can get me a part for my latest toy...a 16v valve spring compressor, so I can lap the valves (be a sin not to after so much work). However, as per EVERY inch of the journey with this engine, the part that opens the spring to get the collets out is too large, so they are as yet, not removed

I have replaced the clutch and found the (likely) reason for the issues being the crank seal had been leaking for a while. Oil had contaminated the moving parts, probably allowing the clutch to slip, giving outrageous readings to the computer, meaning it would have gone to Neutral, causing my wife to believe the engine had stalled (when in fact it hadn't).

I replaced the crank seals on both ends. New clutch assembly, water pump, timing belt assembly, timing chain assembly (as the chain had actually started to eat into the plastic tensioner), oil cooler, all seals needed, head gasket set and so on. I have bought new oil & filters too as I believe the oil (which had barely covered 600 miles) had been contaminated by the paraffin and other substances we poured into the injector sleeves to loosen them. Also, the block & head have been subject to a pressure wash at 155 deg C to loosen/remove any carbon and cack.

Soon as I lap in the valves, I will start the rebuild process so "any" info on timing set up will be helpful as I no longer have a timing belt book (gave it away after my accident as I figured I wouldn't be able to play with engines again I plan on getting a new one to replace it, but any info is helpful.

I'll keep you up to date with the build.

Thanks all.

Peace

[Doo]

Well, trying to find a valve spring compressor small enough to fit this head proved to be somewhat difficult unless I wanted to part with around £130 or so

So I got the welder out, grinder loaded with cutting disc, a tub of nuts, bolts & washers and some scrap bits of metal and made my own.

Valves out and ready to be lapped. Cleaning the bits of carbon, lap the valves, then change the seals and hopefully....300 years later (since I started this bloomin job) start the rebuild

Photo's later....

[Allmostfrench]

Thanks for the tips.
I'm at the stage of starting to disassemble the engine on my C4 1.6HDI (same as yours). I also suffer with a 4 litre P38 2000 as well. Does this mean something?

[Steve Walsh]

Well, trying to find a valve spring compressor small enough to fit this head proved to be somewhat difficult unless I wanted to part with around £130 or so

So I got the welder out, grinder loaded with cutting disc, a tub of nuts, bolts & washers and some scrap bits of metal and made my own.

Valves out and ready to be lapped. Cleaning the bits of carbon, lap the valves, then change the seals and hopefully....300 years later (since I started this bloomin job) start the rebuild

Photo's later....

Love making my own tools

[Doo]

Thanks for the tips.
I'm at the stage of starting to disassemble the engine on my C4 1.6HDI (same as yours). I also suffer with a 4 litre P38 2000 as well. Does this mean something?

Yes it means we have good taste in French cars and sh!te taste in cars made by lazy gits in UK

We're probably related

If you haven't already, drop the engine & box as one. You'll need the whole front off the car and have it on axle stands as per my photo's. Do NOT expect the job to be simple. This car is a biter and I have several teeth marks to prove it, lol

For ease, I stripped the whole loom from the engine so as nothing would get in the way (or break). If you're unsure, get masking tape round each connector and write on it where it goes. Keeps you from guessing. If you don't have an engine stand, make a sturdy bench from 4x2's (or nearest equivalent) and put 4 swivelling wheels to move it around the garage. Get an air compressor with a small blow nozzle to blow away any dirt because the heads are full of recesses where grot can gather.

And go buy 2yrs supply of 5W30 because the production is slowing & stopping on certain engine oils

Any questions, ask away and I'll do my best to help.

Good luck.

[Doo]

Well, trying to find a valve spring compressor small enough to fit this head proved to be somewhat difficult unless I wanted to part with around £130 or so

So I got the welder out, grinder loaded with cutting disc, a tub of nuts, bolts & washers and some scrap bits of metal and made my own.

Valves out and ready to be lapped. Cleaning the bits of carbon, lap the valves, then change the seals and hopefully....300 years later (since I started this bloomin job) start the rebuild

Photo's later....

Love making my own tools

I made mine after seeing a Laser Tools job & thought I could make something similar. So I did.https://www.lasertools.co.uk/Product/54 ... Compressor

Mine bolts onto my portable workbench so I can remove it and put it on a shelf for next time

Works well, but I will need to add a locking lever to hold it in place when rebuilding as it's quite a push, even on these wee baby springs....

All in all, it works well and I'm pleased as it took about an hour to construct using old bits I had lying around.

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As you can see, space is tight, so I made the legs long and welded a stainless steel washer on for strength.

[Steve Walsh]

Looks good

[Tonyl]

Hi, I’ve just completed the same job on my C4 here in sunny Cyprus due to awful top end rattle and asthmatic performance after 256k km. Recommend change the 4 glow plugs as a real b to get out with engine in situ - I had one that had failed anyway. I also changed both camshafts (and chain/tensioner) as each had heavy wear on two and one lobe respectively - explains rattle. I also found excessive fouling of the intake manifold and intake ports so all cleaned out. Change the rocker cover or prise open the PCV valve cover (not designed to do but can be done) and check condition of diaphragm - mine had perforated completely hence pulling oil into induction. Simple fix. Timing - I found Haynes instructions rotated engine the wrong way - before fitting I put 1&4 halfway down the bores on the downstroke, aligned pins in crank ring, cylinder head pulley hole and assembled like that, new timing belt fitted with those pins in place and was fine. Note takes some time to fire up - I actually spun mine with injectors isolated to get oil pressure up but still took a while as fuel system needs bleeding/priming using the hand pump and oil pressure needs to build up in valve train to get all valves moving as they should. Good luck!

[Doo]

Hi, I’ve just completed the same job on my C4 here in sunny Cyprus due to awful top end rattle and asthmatic performance after 256k km. Recommend change the 4 glow plugs as a real b to get out with engine in situ - I had one that had failed anyway. I also changed both camshafts (and chain/tensioner) as each had heavy wear on two and one lobe respectively - explains rattle. I also found excessive fouling of the intake manifold and intake ports so all cleaned out. Change the rocker cover or prise open the PCV valve cover (not designed to do but can be done) and check condition of diaphragm - mine had perforated completely hence pulling oil into induction. Simple fix. Timing - I found Haynes instructions rotated engine the wrong way - before fitting I put 1&4 halfway down the bores on the downstroke, aligned pins in crank ring, cylinder head pulley hole and assembled like that, new timing belt fitted with those pins in place and was fine. Note takes some time to fire up - I actually spun mine with injectors isolated to get oil pressure up but still took a while as fuel system needs bleeding/priming using the hand pump and oil pressure needs to build up in valve train to get all valves moving as they should. Good luck!

I had a holiday in Cyprus. Lovely place apart from head dicks in pick up trucks being an inch off your bumper at any speed....

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I did wonder about timing it as the engine is in bits.

I've renewed just about everything. Funny enough, I replaced the PCV a while back, just before everything wen't from bad to worse.

For a good long time, after towing a caravan, the engine would stall as it someone had just let the clutch out too quick. Then it was jumping forward & stalling immediately after start up I partially fixed it with the computer, but then it started "stalling" according to my wife. Looking back, I think it had been going into neutral and lighting the engine management. NO ONE could tell me what was going on with the car as it appeared to be unheard of

However, I discovered both crank seals had been leaking and I believe oil contaminated the clutch and/or the sensors. The car always drove perfect for me (flat out ) but my wife drives more conservatively so when coming up a sloped road, it would be in a higher gear for longer so my best guess is the clutch would slip past the allowed parameters, it would set Neutral and glide to a halt. She started panicking after that which is when I decided to do the clutch... Then I found the cam chain plastics started to wear, the glow plug breaking was the start of the whole mess of solid injectors and whatnot

I am just about to go borrow a sucker cup stick as I can't find mine... It's been a couple of decades since I lapped in valves I s'pose

Last couple of days, I used brake cleaner to clean at least 96% of the crud in the inlet & hope to blast the last remains with the high pressure washer. Then new seals, valves in and hope I can find all the various engine parts

As ever, I'll keep folks posted