ECU & BSI Corrupted Diagnostics Topic

[senna1]

Hi All
I'm new to this forum, but not to Citroen/Peugeot , I generally do other car stuff, coding programming, Diagnostics, remapping etc. NOT Citroen/Peugeot.

Now Citroen or Peugeot , when they get a Bsi or Engine Ecu Lock immobiliser access, corrupted eeprom, Caused from something as simple as jump starting the car.

I thought i would start the Topic, as sooner or later someone will have this problem, maybe there is already a link on here,, i'm not sure 100% what kit is needed or programmer to fix the fault
I see a lot of tools on ebay planet 2000 , Lexia, Diagbox etc, But i doubt one tool will do the job, including immob delete.

Someone on here may have info to describe what steps to take, from getting a Dona Ecu or Bsi depending where the fault lays, then you have mileage issues
as the car will default to the mileage that is highest Bsi or Cluster, then vehicle Options such as electric windows,

If you try to fix the original Ecu or Bsi, you need kit to read the devices, if readable, is there any tools that can repair the corrupted eeprom, like you can do with
example BMW FRM3 Module. ?

Senna 1

[wheeler]

I see a lot of tools on ebay planet 2000 , Lexia, Diagbox etc, But i doubt one tool will do the job, including immob delete.

None of these can do immo delete, they are (pretty much) the same as the dealer tools that also cant do immo delete.

Someone on here may have info to describe what steps to take, from getting a Dona Ecu or Bsi depending where the fault lays, then you have mileage issues
as the car will default to the mileage that is highest Bsi or Cluster, then vehicle Options such as electric windows,

If you replace the ECU, BSI & transponder chip as a set then these parts are already coded together but if replacing any of them individually then some reflashing would be required & is normally a bench job (again the dealer tools can't do this). Changing customer options & configurations can be done with the above tools Diagbox, Lexia & PP2000 as can most high end diag kit such as Autel, Bosch, Launch etc. You then Have tools like Abrites That can do everything Diagbox (offline) can do and some things even Diagbox can't do. You can read ECU & BSI dumps with this tool via OBD. Of course if its corrupted then that can be a problem.
For the things your looking to do i'd say there is very little chance you will get one tool that does it all.

[senna1]

Hi
Thanks for the info,, the Abrites, is this link tool ok as probably a clone,
https://www.obd2shop.co.uk/wholesale/sv ... GgQAvD_BwE

I have seen stuff like this, but you wonder if it works,, Is the ECU and BSI immobilised or just the Ecu.

Do you know if the ecu immob is deleted it would start the car, vehicle options, can be done with Lexia & pp2000. Even AUTEL ms909 cant complete the whole job
So i'm trying to work out what tools are required, if ever needed i don't want to just buy a Ecu, Bsi keys set , i have stuff here for doing BMW mini R53 ems2 ecu, i don't have to touch the EWS3 module,

If for example it is the ecu that is at fault, and read the whole ecu i would just clone it, if the data is not Readable, get a Dona then need to read the pin code for access and do a immob delete, Maybe pp2000 can read the pin, as most owners don't have the original card for the pin, If the BSI is corrupted then try and do the same .
could be a long process if the data cant be read, especially the vehicle options, Feel free to add anything .

[wheeler]

If the immo is deleted from the ECU then yes it will start without a transponder chip.

Yes thats a clone tool in the link above
.
The dealer tools have no functionality to pull the pin code as they wouldn’t have the need to use this as they can just look up the pin from the VIN. There are plenty of tools on the market (including Abrites) that can pull the pin via OBD.

[Gibbo2286]

Malwarebytes blocks that link Wheeler, says it has a trojan.

[wheeler]

Strange, McAfee doesn't give me any warnings, hope its ok, will run a virus scan anyway. Link opened no problem & I have actually bought stuff from this shop too.

[myglaren]

Opened the link with Firefox, Brve and Chromium and no warnings issued.
Don't have McCaffe, Malwarebytes or similar, never needed.
Only Clam AV that is also never really needed. No viruses have ever affected me.

[GiveMeABreak]

This is just a Chinese storefront for Chinese products - they wouldn't be my first choice, customer service is poor from lots of reviews.

[wheeler]

Yes there are at least 20 similar web shops that i can think of but pretty sure they are all the same company as the websites are almost identical. I've bought from quite a few of them over the years (including the one above), They seem to use UK warehouses as most stuff arrives within the week & normally by Yodel for the more expensive stuff. I've not had any issues with the stuff I have bought so far so not had a chance to see what the customer service is like.

[ozvtr]

If the immo is deleted from the ECU then yes it will start without a transponder chip.

You need to be careful of the immo off file you choose. It's fraught with danger.
It varies from ECU to ECU and system to system.
In some cases the immo off file causes the engine ECU to fail to communicate back to the BSI the security code "acknowledged correct" and "engine running" instructions. While the engine does run, the BSI doesn't know that and the BSI eventually goes into ECO mode!
If you buy an engine ECU with the immo off...be warned!

You are better off reading the security code from engine ECU and altering the code in the BSI EEPROM HEX. Or vice versa.
Not all ECU's EEPROMS and FLASH memory can be read from the ECU's electrical connectors and consequently the ECU needs to be "opened up". Even if they can be read from the connectors, they may require sophisticated bits of software and/or hardware to navigate the gizzards of the ECU. Some of the engine ECUs are potted. That is; filled with silicone. You need to cut it away to get to the EEPROM or FLASH memory. Some EEPROMS can not be read "in situ" and need to be removed from the circuit board.

But all of this is only if you are ABSOLUTELY forced into this situation or your "cheap" or your just curious. I'm cheap and curious. There are easier ways.
As Wheeler says, the easiest way is to just obtain a "matched" key(plip), BSI and engine ECU set for your car's gearbox(auto, manual) , trim level and engine. Then set the customer options and VIN using an appropriate scan tool. There are some disadvantages to this but still the easiest. Acknowledged, some bit's are getting hard to find and your options may be limited.

To be honest most of this is moot. The engine ECU's are VERY reliable and the BSI's can be repaired. It would be a rare situation where either or both would need to be replaced outright.

[ozvtr]

The process you wish to attain can be easy or can be hard to attain. There are a lot of combinations.
Bosh, Siemens, Valeo, Sagem, Johnson controls ETC all do things differently. So there are many ways to accomplish the same thing. Some easy some hard and some cannot be done at all! For example, once 'locked' the transponder chips and central locking plips can not be re-used with another BSI. If you were to 'loose' the EEPROM in the BSI you will not be able to re-use the plips or transponders when you are rebuilding the system. However, transponder chips are cheap but central locking plips are problematic (I won't go into why, it's a very long story). So if you are worried about frying the EEPROM in the BSI...get a HEX dump of it...now.
Also, it's easier to service older systems than newer systems. Mostly because someone else has already done the hard work and figured out what to do. And the processes evolve.
Are you talking about something specific? Like your Berlingo? Or PSA in general? It's easier to talk about specific stuff rather than general stuff.

If you want to get into this stuff I would recommend that you have good soldering skills, a basic knowledge of Hexadecimal, and the patience of Job (Johb) to trawl the internet looking for the "tools" (hardware, programs, files, info etc) to do the job! You will never find what you need in the one spot and no one person has all the answers! I don't know any ones skill set here so I am just generalizing.

The other thing is that the admins might not think that divulging this information is in the best interest of the forum?
While I absolutely agree to the "right to repair", we are getting into security and "hacking" territory here. Some of this stuff can be used for nefarious purposes. This site hides VINs so I guess they take security seriously?
The other side of the coin is that the "bad guys" probably already know this stuff and we are not divulging anything new.
I would like to know the admins' stance on this subject? How far do we go?

[wheeler]

The other thing is that the admins might not think that divulging this information is in the best interest of the forum?
While I absolutely agree to the "right to repair", we are getting into security and "hacking" territory here. Some of this stuff can be used for nefarious purposes. This site hides VINs so I guess they take security seriously?
The other side of the coin is that the "bad guys" probably already know this stuff and we are not divulging anything new.
I would like to know the admins' stance on this subject? How far do we go?

I wouldn't say there is a big security risk here, Everything said above is freely available online. Realistically on here this info is more than likely going to be used to save an otherwise good vehicle from going to a scrap yard. If someone wanted to steal your car they could just come along with an unlocked plug & play ECU from ebay. You dont often hear about Citroen's being stolen to order
This is something I have been gradually been doing/learning over the last couple of years, The security on PSA cars is actually pretty decent compared to some, Ford security for example is an absolute joke. I programmed a new proximity key into a mate of mines 2016 Kuga, It taken me no more than a minute & a half from the time I opened the drivers door, no security codes required whatsoever.

Yes, with regards to unlocking & modifying ECU's that was just generic advice, every type of ECU is different in what can be done to it & how it reacts.

[senna1]

If the immo is deleted from the ECU then yes it will start without a transponder chip.

Yes thats a clone tool in the link above
.
The dealer tools have no functionality to pull the pin code as they wouldn’t have the need to use this as they can just look up the pin from the VIN. There are plenty of tools on the market (including Abrites) that can pull the pin via OBD.

The clone appear to work, by what videos ive seen, and see why compared to original price,
any ideas if the eeprom cant be read, what solutions are available, say if water damaged, Can a file of another ecu or Bsi Of the same type be used, if the vin is changed
and pin code ?

[senna1]

If the immo is deleted from the ECU then yes it will start without a transponder chip.

You need to be careful of the immo off file you choose. It's fraught with danger.
It varies from ECU to ECU and system to system.
In some cases the immo off file causes the engine ECU to fail to communicate back to the BSI the security code "acknowledged correct" and "engine running" instructions. While the engine does run, the BSI doesn't know that and the BSI eventually goes into ECO mode!
If you buy an engine ECU with the immo off...be warned!

You are better off reading the security code from engine ECU and altering the code in the BSI EEPROM HEX. Or vice versa.
Not all ECU's EEPROMS and FLASH memory can be read from the ECU's electrical connectors and consequently the ECU needs to be "opened up". Even if they can be read from the connectors, they may require sophisticated bits of software and/or hardware to navigate the gizzards of the ECU. Some of the engine ECUs are potted. That is; filled with silicone. You need to cut it away to get to the EEPROM or FLASH memory. Some EEPROMS can not be read "in situ" and need to be removed from the circuit board.

But all of this is only if you are ABSOLUTELY forced into this situation or your "cheap" or your just curious. I'm cheap and curious. There are easier ways.
As Wheeler says, the easiest way is to just obtain a "matched" key(plip), BSI and engine ECU set for your car's gearbox(auto, manual) , trim level and engine. Then set the customer options and VIN using an appropriate scan tool. There are some disadvantages to this but still the easiest. Acknowledged, some bit's are getting hard to find and your options may be limited.

To be honest most of this is moot. The engine ECU's are VERY reliable and the BSI's can be repaired. It would be a rare situation where either or both would need to be replaced outright.

Yes it's all slightly different manufacturers with say the Bmw Mini R53 i can clone them to match the Immobiliser, but most tend to need to re aligned synced to the Immob, Yes sometimes it is necessary to do Boot mode or bench for ecu read etc, easy choice like you say to get a ecu key etc set,

Do you know if the pin code can be read and transferred to a Dona ecu / Bsi unit, Will it enable the vehicle to run and function providing the vehicle options are the same, There must be a more strait forward way to edit these Device , what tools apart from VVDI PP 2000. would be needed,

[senna1]

Yes there are at least 20 similar web shops that i can think of but pretty sure they are all the same company as the websites are almost identical. I've bought from quite a few of them over the years (including the one above), They seem to use UK warehouses as most stuff arrives within the week & normally by Yodel for the more expensive stuff. I've not had any issues with the stuff I have bought so far so not had a chance to see what the customer service is like.

GOOD