First ever Citroen - Invalid oil level

[nocturnal]

Hi all I'm new here

Bought a 2012 C5 Diesel VTR+ NAV 120kW 163hp from an auction in January with 122k miles.

I get the invalid oil level on ignition position every time, car was low on oil when I collected it. Did a full service on it and it took over 6 litres of oil to get it just over the minimum level on the dipstick and I didn't want to add more as the book states 5.5 litres.

Found out the location of the oil level sensor to try and unplug it to clean the contacts and I see there is only one wire going to the plug as shown in photo. Maybe it only takes one wire I don't know but I'd like to check before buying a new sensor for £17 if that is the problem.

Only fault codes I have through cheapy OBDii sensor are P050B which relates to cold running ignition timing which seems to be correct as it lacks power on cold starts unless I rev it.

Passenger window has gremlins too which reverses down from full to 1/2 way unless I manually stop it near top.

Been reading these topics on this great forum, a few suggested the battery, I tested the voltage across it there and it reads 14.44V when engine running which seems good but the indicator window on the battery is not a nice healthy green but almost or totally dark. I have read this may cause electrical gremlins on the windows and possibly even the oil level indicator to not read but not sure.

Otherwise it is a great car, goes like the clappers, engine is good condition and everything else works in it. After I sort these Gremlins I just want to do a full coolant change as it is looking rather brown but no foam suggesting head gasket. The car has had money spent on it as I found receipts for a new clutch, flywheel done about 1.5 years ago and even timing belt at 78k. Brake discs etc too look quite recent.

Thanks and this is the best car I ever had so far being able to leave the dreaded motorway undertakers for dead.

[Hell Razor5543]

Hi, and to the Forum.

I cannot offer you any advice on the C5 X7 (which is what yours is known as; mine is known as the Facelift), as I have no experience of them. However, I would get the battery properly tested (some places may do this for free), as a failing battery can (as you have found out) cause all sorts of weird problems. I would also get the steering rack checked out, as it is known that they can develop a leak around the pinion. If it is not leaking it would be worth packing a load of waterproof grease in, to protect it (but I know that other Forum members with experience of the X7 will be able to help you further).

[Paul-R]

I had the same problem on my X7 and I had it fixed under warranty. There's a technical document for this and, IIRC, it involves shortening the dipstick tube.

[Paul-R]

This was my post

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... =3&t=55464

mostly on the first page and some more relevant posts on the third page.

[nocturnal]

I'll look into getting the battery tested but isn't that what the green indicator light is for? Who tests batteries for free? I was trying to find a date on the battery but no joy, several forum posts saying batteries beyond 4 years giving gremlins to a C5 and that sounds logical.

My battery looks older than 4 years, the well indicator is totally black and I'm thinking this is the main suspect as I get the economy mode on the dash and I can't run the radio in ignition mode for more than a couple of minutes at most, sometimes shorter. Any previous cars I could play the radio for a long time.

Yeah I already read that 40 reply post by Paul-R and thank you both but could not work out the logic of shortening the tube, my C5's oil level sensor obviously did work at one time before It got it and mine gives invalid regardless of how much oil is in it, even when I drained it out empty.

I'm still wondering about the wiring and trying to find out if there should be one or two wires going to it.

In the end I should trust the dipstick but the car took 6 litres of oil and 0.3 litres of additive to get it just past the minimum level, whereas I read other posts saying only put 4.5 litres in it... Truly confusing and there seems to be a myriad of possible solutions posted about this problem.

[mickthemaverick]

Yeah I already read that 40 reply post by Paul-R and thank you both but could not work out the logic of shortening the tube, my C5's oil level sensor obviously did work at one time before It got it and mine gives invalid regardless of how much oil is in it, even when I drained it out empty.

I believe the logic of shortening the tube is that with the top of the tube lower, then the dipstick effectively goes deeper into the sump and will then give a full reading with the right amount of oil in the engine.

[nocturnal]

Yeah I already read that 40 reply post by Paul-R and thank you both but could not work out the logic of shortening the tube, my C5's oil level sensor obviously did work at one time before It got it and mine gives invalid regardless of how much oil is in it, even when I drained it out empty.

I believe the logic of shortening the tube is that with the top of the tube lower, then the dipstick effectively goes deeper into the sump and will then give a full reading with the right amount of oil in the engine.

Wey hey I thought of that too.

But I'm not convinced by this whatsoever, if there is way too much oil or too little the sensor and system should obviously designed to tell you this, and not give a invalid reading. Well I should hope so LoL

If I currently shortened the tube by say 10mm the oil level would still come between the minimum and just under the maximum so that makes no sense either.

Besides Paul-R said his oil level sensor was at the back of the engine whereas mine is at the front beside the dipstick so must be a different engine?

I miss my old Megane 1.5 DCi

If this is not an MOT failure then I'll just enjoy the car and check the oil with the dipstick every couple of weeks. I've never owned a car before where I just wanted to drive 500 miles for no reason

[Paul-R]

Regardless of whether you can understand how it works (I don't either), the fact remains that there's a Citroen service bulletin about it. At the very least contact your local dealer to see if the car has had the procedure done.

[nocturnal]

Was just out in the car there updating the firmware in the new Garmin dashcam and when I got out and locked it with the key fob the left passenger window went 1/2 way down LoL

Yesterday the same happened but the alarm went off also after it was parked for over an hour without me doing anything.

WTF?

If a Megane was known as a migraine what do we call these?

[Hell Razor5543]

If a Megane was known as a migraine what do we call these?

Bl00dy French Car!

[Gibbo2286]

Was just out in the car there updating the firmware in the new Garmin dashcam and when I got out and locked it with the key fob the left passenger window went 1/2 way down LoL

Yesterday the same happened but the alarm went off also after it was parked for over an hour without me doing anything.

WTF?

If a Megane was known as a migraine what do we call these?

Two things about the window, one, is the track free and clear? two, does the anti pinch need resetting?
If it's just dragging in the tracks a spray with silicon lube will fix it, if it needs resetting there's a procedure somewhere here on the forum on how to do it.

[GiveMeABreak]

Reinitialise the anti pinch system.

You need to do this every time the battery is disconnected.

• Hold the window button down until it reaches the fully down position.
• Next lift the window button to the first setting so that the window starts to go up whilst you are holding it manually (don't use the 'one-touch' by lifting the button fully up).
• The window may stop several times. When it does, release and then again pull the switch up gently to the first notch where the window starts going up manually, keeping your finger on it, and it will start to move again.
• Repeat this until the window is fully closed.
• When the window is fully closed, again hold the button at the first position for a few seconds - you may hear or feel a feint click. This is the system reinitialised.
• You should then be able to raise and lower the window normally without it stopping.
• Repeat for the other electric windows that are fitted with anti-pinch.

[admiral51]

I would change the battery first and foremost, there is a proper BSI reset procedure which needs to be followed sure someone will find the link before i do

BSI reset is Here

When locking the car you can close any open windows with a longer press so could be that the battery is playing up and playing tricks with the windows.
I have just checked my C5 X7 same engine and there is only 1 wire on the plug going to the sensor. However i have a spare sensor Engine Oil Gauge 1131K6 for my C4 2.0 HDi and there are 2 pins on the sensor plug, hopefully someone can confirm the part numbers are the same.
Maybe a year ago my wife had the service light come on and the low oil level warning, needed about 1/4 of litre to get it back mid dipstick mark on the C5
The original oil dipsticks were prone to breaking the bottom part off and dropping them into the sump, and i am just wondering based on the amount of oil you have added if yours is broken, the level marks are on the bit that breaks off.
The part number for the updated dipstick is (614 long) 1174G9.
I have no idea if the invalid level indicates too much oil, but i know that low level comes with service light and low engine oil warning in my personal experience.
I have the spare sensor for my C4 because i was getting the invalid oil level warning and i also had a broken dipstick. i had it in the garage for a few other issues but they didn't use it, have no idea if they took it out and cleaned it but did say there was too much ash ( memory a bit vague) from the wrong oil. Had a filter and oil change and been good as gold ever since.

Colin

[nocturnal]

Thanks for the comprehensive replies fellas.

The wonky passenger window isn't dragging whatsoever (I know the silicone trick), in fact all the window motors are strong making me think the battery is good.

However I'm collecting a battery tomorrow, £61 is a good price for this car, 640 CCA don't know what brand but I can't keep this car for more than about a year anyway as import fees from NI into the Republic of Ireland cost over £3k

The window must just need resetting as it kind of 'bounces' of the maximum fully closed position.

I've also noticed the Sat NAV and radio going a bit wonky switching on and off for a few minutes after a cold morning start so more evidence pointing at the battery. I'll update if I get it fitted tomorrow as there is yet another storm with snow and I have no garage to work in.

Thanks for the conformation that there is only one pin on the oil level sensor and yes I did see the part 1131K6 indeed had two pins. Single pin sensors are common as the circuit uses the sensor body and engine block as a ground.

No, my dipstick is not broken and the level arrows are indeed at the very bottom (a terrible design and difficult to see with a fresh oil change on yellow plastic), but yeah mine took more than 6 litres from a complete flush to get it just above the minimum arrow!

Yes you are supposed to use low SAPS S2 oil to prevent ash etc. clogging the EGR, intakes, exhaust and DPF etc. You can get low SAPs S3 oil too and is supposedly better for lubricating higher mileage engines.

[nocturnal]

Just fitted the new battery, was horrified to see the old battery's health indicator well suddenly turn a nice green LoL

Thanks to givemeabreak the passenger window now closes and stays closed wey hey, and I now know that holding down the lock key puts all the windows up as well as locking the doors, but why is this important information not in the Citroen manual?

Unfortunately the new battery did not solve the oil level invalid message but I didn't expect it too.

Will update when I drive it for a few days, maybe the economy mode won't come on so quick.

Hope this 70aH 600CCA is good enough for the car. The battery I took out was a 720CCA start stop even if the car isn' a start stop!