2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

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trapa57
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2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by trapa57 »

My previously reliable Xantia 2.0 hdi is running, but it is good job it's not hilly where I live. The car has never been particularly quick and in the autumn I decided it was time to address the EGR problem. I intended to remove and replace the EGR but with rusty and rounded retaining nuts I thought two tins of EGR cleaner would be worth a try. After one tin the car ran badly, leaving a trail of black smoke with the engine getting hot pretty quickly. Not content I gave it the second tin of cleaner thinking I had only done half a job. The car ran just as bad if not worse – black smoke, little power, injector knock and an EGR flapping up and down. By disconnecting the EGR the car ran better. I arranged for the car to be collected by a breakdown truck which broke down on the way to the independent garage, delaying the EGR replacement. A couple of weeks later the car was ready (complete with MOT) - EGR replaced and cat cleaned out. When I collected it I was told the car was slow, which was an understatement. However, I wanted it back home so nursed it 25 miles, avoiding any hills and hitting 50 mph flat out. And there was still a trail of black smoke, engine light,etc.
Since getting it back I have only driven it a few times – it is a good job it is flat here as the car has no low down power (like a tuned two stroke engine) and now it is producing white smoke. It now won’t rev over 3000 rpm, but has a distinct turbo push between 2500 and 3000 rpm (a new feature) but at 3000 rpm it is held back by serious injector knock. It starts, runs quietly at tick over and the EGR is sorted. During these short journeys (all under 10 miles) the engine warning light often comes on and when I connect the Lexia the only fault I get is ‘Intermittent fault, EGR electrovalve control top position’. All of the pipes between vacuum pump, electrovalves, and turbo are either new or good/checked and the EGR electrovalve is new. I have swapped out the MAF with a known good one and ditto with the HP fuel regulator.
Any advice, thoughts, guidance (especially regarding the use of Lexia) would be most appreciated.
oscar
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by oscar »

Well if they have done MOT on it it's void as can't have tested emissions to get reading if it's as you say picking up from garage another is EML light on is a fail along with black smoke!
There is a number/details to report dodgy MOT's on test cert.
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Gregor
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Gregor »

hi. is white smoke thick? does it start right away from engine start or after a mile or two after driving and when accelerated?
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Gregor
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Gregor »

White smoke is water or perfectly burnt engine oil....
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white exec
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by white exec »

Gregor wrote:
29 Nov 2021, 12:37
White smoke is water or perfectly burnt engine oil....
Thick white fog, slightly sweet smelling, is burning coolant (ethylene glycol - also uised for 'stage smoke').
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Gregor
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Gregor »

in my case with R5GTt it was turbine shaft seal wear, spraying thin jet of oil into exhaust. Plenty of white smoke, almost no smell at all. After a week or two, TURBO bang with thick fog curtain all over the junction of roads.
Stewart(oily)
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Stewart(oily) »

Does your Xantia have a second electrovalve alongside the EGR one? ie is it a 110 or a 90.
Pablo
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Pablo »

This has all the symptoms of over-advanced fuel pump timing i.e. white smoke, noisy injectors and no power.

I'm not familiar with these engines but assuming it's belt drive, I'd be checking the belt and timing before throwing more money at it.
oscar
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by oscar »

Pablo wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 00:19
This has all the symptoms of over-advanced fuel pump timing i.e. white smoke, noisy injectors and no power.

I'm not familiar with these engines but assuming it's belt drive, I'd be checking the belt and timing before throwing more money at it.
And i'd love to know how they passed a MOT with it like that?
Pablo
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Pablo »

oscar wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 11:40
Pablo wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 00:19
This has all the symptoms of over-advanced fuel pump timing i.e. white smoke, noisy injectors and no power.

I'm not familiar with these engines but assuming it's belt drive, I'd be checking the belt and timing before throwing more money at it.
And i'd love to know how they passed a MOT with it like that?
Same old argument. They only have to say it was ok when tested.

Don't they have to include emissions on the MOT cert these days?
trapa57
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks everyone for your replies and sorry I didn't give more information to start with. The engine is a 110 with two electrovalves and I have checked and replaced the vac pipes. The garage also replaced the electrovalve which operates the EGR. The engine is fairly low mileage (97K) but has never been quick and I suspect the previous owner was careful (and aged 80 when he sold it)
From what I can tell the white smoke starts a little after the car is started and doesn't seem to have a sweet smell (my sense of smell isn't good though), more like a smell of 'fumes'. The coolant level appears to be fine, there is no emulsion on the underside of the oil cap (nor on the coolant cap). The cam belt was changed in June this year.
There is hardly enough power to get the car moving and so I have only driven it after dark for the past two outings but I am not driving it again until I have discovered and sorted some or all of the issues as the injector knock you get at 30 mph is very bad and coincides with a drop off in power. I have access to Lexia but have little experience with interpreting live data - I watched as I revved the car and the fuel pressure seemed to fluctuate wildly from 280 to 350 and back again. I then replaced the fuel pressure regulator with a known/good one with no effect.
For the moment I am not interested in how or why the garage issued an MOT as I have too many other responsibilities to keep up with (lots of hospital visiting, etc).
Any further ideas, suggestions will be most welcome.
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Gregor
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Gregor »

trapa57 faulty injectors can be reason for fuel pressure fluctuating and since you have knocking sounds, I would start here. The next station would be turbo check.
vincentfishing
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by vincentfishing »

as above, injector knackered probaby, had same thing happen on a 5 cylinder merc, no power, clouds of white smoke(overfueling) and injector knock, i proved it by disconnecting suspect injector plug and driving on 4 cylinders , smoke and knocking stopped, drove quite smoothly on 4 cylinders! Think i actually reconnected plug and capped fuel supply so i could drive without causing limp mode,
sure you could disconnect plug and car would be rough but would run on 3 just to prove fault, you might have to disconnect and drive one at a time to find faulty one ,process of elimination
Stewart(oily)
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by Stewart(oily) »

The pumps are not timed on these engines, turbocharger electrovalve can give odd symptoms.
trapa57
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Re: 2.0 hdi Xantia - no power, white smoke

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks everyone, I will follow up your suggestions starting with the electrovalves and their connections, then the injectors. As I can use Lexia to look at the injector live data what should watch out for and be aware of? I am not surprised if one injector has been damaged when I drove the car with the knackered EGR as it was seriously over fueling (lots of black smoke) and the crud from the EGR will have gone into the cylinders on its way down the exhaust.