605 alternator

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Armidillo
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605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

My wife had to call for roadside assistance when the mighty 605 failed to proceed - I am actually thankful that it appears to be "only" a failed alternator (AFAIK it's the original alternator and the car is 27 years old).

My VIN is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff], and the pulley is for a 5-rib belt. We only got the PRV engined version with 4HP18 tranny.

I looked up the 605 in catcar.info, but it did not recognise the VIN. I was able to drill down by model, age etc. but was left confused by the very long list it presented. If someone has the time to look into this I'd be most grateful.

Cheers
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xantia_v6
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by xantia_v6 »

I can't look it up right now, but it is probably unique to the PRV V6 12 valve engine. You may need to find someone to repair it.

Do check that the main wire is securely connected at the alternator and that the exciter wire (if fitted) has a volt or two on it when the ignition is switched on.
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moizeau
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by moizeau »

Normally it's just the brushes / regulator box that needs replacing, 'bout 20 quid last time I did one.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

Car made it home after NRMA (roadside assistance in NSW) put some charge in the battery, but I'm 200 km away. Have asked my wife (when she gets a moment) to check that charge warning light comes on when key is turned on. No warning lights caught her eye when it was playing up...

Does the alternator require the charge warning light to "excite" the "field current of the rotor winding"? Could it be as simple as a blown globe in the dash?
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

moizeau wrote:
16 Oct 2021, 07:49
Normally it's just the brushes / regulator box that needs replacing, 'bout 20 quid last time I did one.
That sounds very encouraging, but I have doubts about whether local auto sparky will be able to get parts in Australia. Can only hope!!

Wouldn't you change bearings while you had it in pieces?
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by RichardW »

The part number is 5705G5, but it doesn't specify what's fitted, it might be Mitsubishi or Valeo 90 Amp, but even then 10 options are presented!!

In theory you need the exciter wire to get charge out of the alternator, but in practice, there's usually enough residual magnetism to get it to self excite if it's good. You can probably fit a new brush pack without dismantling the alternator, which means not disturbing the bearings, but if something else has gone wrong, then it might need to come apart. Often by the time the brushes are done, the slip rings are also worn out, so a rebuild is probably called for.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by myglaren »

Taking the age into consideration it may be worthwhile checking the telltale bulb in the instrument cluster.

I know of one incident here, a bloke who lived near me with a Scorpio was stopped on his way home one night. Driving without lights. Fortunately it was RAC who stopped him and asked why. The car died if he put the lights on and the RAC bloke diagnosed it there and then, blown bulb in the dash - which was needed to work as it was in the exciter circuit and the alternator wouldn't charge with it blown.
Common problem apparently.
Also a very expensive repair as the dash had to come out. £180, which may not sound much but was for a £0.30p bulb, this was in 1991.
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white exec
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by white exec »

Good advice - the small tungsten bulb on the dash gets +12 from the IGN sw, and passes this to an alternator terminal, which is at Ground when the engine isn't turning, so the lamp lights. As soon as the alternator is driven, that same terminal goes to +12, so extinguishing the lamp. That was the traditional way of both exciting and checking the alternator for output.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

myglaren wrote:
16 Oct 2021, 09:16
Taking the age into consideration it may be worthwhile checking the telltale bulb in the instrument cluster.

...
Thanks - got my wife to check. The charge warning light comes on when key is turned on, but doesn't go out when engine starts, but does go out when revved above idle. So it's behaving as if alternator has been swapped for a generator!
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

RichardW wrote:
16 Oct 2021, 08:56
The part number is 5705G5, but it doesn't specify what's fitted, it might be Mitsubishi or Valeo 90 Amp, but even then 10 options are presented!!

...
Thank you Richard - but it's not quite as simple as that! 5705G5 alternators are readily available, however every 5705G5 I have found online has the 6 groove pulley, while my 605 has a narrower belt and 5 groove pulleys.

catcar.info also lists 5705G6, which (you guessed it) has the 5 groove pulley. As you've probably also guessed - they are much harder to find. xantia_v6 is right - I could not find a new 120amp 5705G6 for sale. You can only get a remanufactured Valeo (for over 500 pounds) from onlinecarparts..co.uk - spareto.com does list 4, but none are still manufactured...

There are other brands (none familiar to me) sold as 5705G6, but they are lower amperage. May be OK, but the electric fans get a good workout in summer, and I believe they are 150w each, so not keen on a lower powered alternator.

Guess I was hoping that Service Box might have pointed to a later replacement option, or at least a firm definition of what amperage is required...
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white exec
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by white exec »

Done a bit of poking around on Parts.
I don't have access to SB Pug (only Citroen), but found that both 5705G5 and 5705G6 were fitted to XMI and XMII - as you'd expect - both to V6 and some diesels.

5705G5 shown as Class 8 90A, and (on XM) as having a 5pk belt (so presumably, but not categorically) a 5pk pulley.
5705G6 shown as Class 12 120A, same belt size.

Both alternators are listed on Mister Auto UK
5705G5 . . . Choice of three makes at 97A, one at 90A . . . All shown as 6pk
and
5706G6 comes up with two . . . a Magneti Marelli 80A, 5pk
but - could be what you're looking for?
>>> VALEO 437462 120A 5pk in stock £147.90

If the car has a 5pk belt system, don't see why it shouldn't run ok over a 6pk pulley, if aligned right. Perhaps irrelevant.

Hope helpful.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

Thanks Chris - on all fronts!

Firstly - Doh! - it hadn't occurred to me that it may very well be OK to use a 6 rib pulley with a 5 rib belt - just not the other way around!

It does look like you've struck gold on Mister Auto - only problem now is that the web site appears to be down. Hope it's actually down (perhaps for maintenance) and not blocking Australian-origin browsing. I will keep trying...

Here's hoping that Mister Auto will post to Australia - and that they don't have outrageous freight charges!
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by white exec »

Mister Auto, which is owned by Stellantis/PSA, operates in various countries, hold local stock, but with the bulk of lesser-call items held in France,
For countries where they are not present, there is an international distributor of their stock (colisexpat.com) who will dispatch to anywhere.

Mister Auto UK has been through Brexit chaos recently, which has affected the site (usually available to browse, but not necessarily to order). You can also browse stock on Mister Auto ES, FR... or any of the others. Prices vary between sites. I use .ES regularly, which is usually a bit cheaper than .UK. Same game as Amazon!
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

Have now been able to open Mister Auto ES, Fr or UK.
Alas, the Valeo 120 amp unit is now Out of stock/Indisponible/No disponible.

Looks like I'd better get the one I've got out of the car, and get our auto sparky to assess it.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by RichardW »

A 5 rib belt is listed on the parts database. The pulley should be relatively easily changed over of course... I'd have thought a Mitsubishi alternator would be available in your part of the world, this is the info listed for the various alternators:

ALTERNATOR NEW
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI* - A 004 T 03292
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
link to associated labour time
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI - A 004 T 02892
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI* - A 003 TA 0592
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
VALEO(ALTERNAT) - A 14 N 172
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
VALEO(ALTERNAT) - A 14 N 139
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
VALEO(ALTERNAT) - A 13 VI 108
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI - A 002 T 37692
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI - A 004 T 00891
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
VALEO(ALTERNAT) - A 13 VI 68
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP
01
CLASSE 9 - 90 AMP
MITSUBISHI - A 002 T 13391B/C
- ALTERNATOR 90 AMP

Putting the part numbers for the Mitsi alternators comes back with some hits that look right, they are in the form of A4T03292 taking the first one.

If the current one is putting the light out, but not providing sufficient charge then a field coil may have gone down, it should be possible to re-wind it, but I don't suppose it will be cheap!!