C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

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Murphyv310
Donor 2021
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C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
I've not had my C3 Picasso 1.4vti (2011) very long. It has some patchy history. When I bought it the engine had been allegedly serviced, the oil looked clean but the filter hasn't been undone. I drained the oil and fitted a new filter, used 5w30 C2 Magnatec. Some slight noise with the old oil then cleared and the engine is now reasonably quiet. It does though on cold starts give a rushing sound for five to seven seconds then suddenly clear, it's as if something is initially starved of lubricant. Any ideas?
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
In addition to the above. If the car has been sitting for an hour or so it does the same but a shorter time before it clears.
I might try and do a YouTube clip tomorrow.
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
Here is the video. Sorry its rotated by 90 degrees.

I'm leaning toward timing chain or tensioner. What is the feeling
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
I now see why there is a rushing noise on start up. It's the water pump idler driving the pump for a few seconds. There may be issues with the actual bearing on the idler, that's something to check later, the clack clack from the timing chain is more worrying right now. I'm removing the cam cover tomorrow or the next day to look at the chain and top guide rail. I belive the tensioners aren't that great but we will see.
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mickthemaverick
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by mickthemaverick »

Hi Trevor and :welc: to the forum.
We do have something in common for others to work out!! I'm glad to see you have identified the culprit already, as from hearing your video I was thinking timing gear issue somewhere. Apart from your issue have a good look round the forum from the board index above, the members are a great bunch with boundless enthusiasm and a great sense of family!! In the Off Topic Chat Lounge you will find much amusement, entertainment and education from the various discussions so have a look and join in whatever interests you! :-D
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi
Well I removed the cam cover today and the chain certainly isn't loose, it is firm on the pulleys and looks in good condition, there is no broken plastics from the guide rails. The valve clearances are virtually zero, to be expected seeing the setup. The cam cover though was very sludgy and there was a fair amount of glaze on the alloy surfaces of the head. Prior to rebuilding the parts I took off I poured engine oil on the cams and chain. On the first start up it was very quiet with no tapping etc. Obviously the engine was stone cold. I've already done two oil changes in a month and one filter, so today I added a bottle of Forte engine flush and let the car idle for 45 minutes with the occasional 1500 rpm burst. By the time 30 minutes elapsed there was even less valve noise from the top end.
I let the engine cool a bit after and drained the sump, fitted a new filter and 5w30 C2 oil. Big improvement in overall noise. Now just need to listen on a cold start. Will update tomorrow.
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
Sounded very nice this morning with just a little tap from one of the hydraulic tappets, it cleared after 30 seconds or so.
I'm sure with some running even that will disappear. Pleased with the result.
Only snag is my back is playing up today.
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Murphyv310
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Re: C3 picasso 1.4 VTi rushing noise on cold starts

Post by Murphyv310 »

Hi.
The final observations on this engine. A lot of the noise eminates from the Brake Vacuum pump, it's seems to come from the drive at the rear of the exhaust camshaft to the pump. Removing the vacuum pipe makes a big difference, the clicking on idle when warm makes me think it perhaps the purge valve.
I wonder how many misdiagnosis are made of the timing chain when in fact its these ancillary add ons?
I've also added a bottle of Liqi Moly Cera tec, even with under 50 miles it feels definitely livelier and smoother, will see what the long term results are though before raving about it right now.