2.1 into 1.9?

Post by **philhoward** » 13 Apr 2004, 21:12

Sort of on behalf of a bloke I bought some BX bits off at the weekend...
He's got a Xantia 1.9TD (P reg) which don't want to run (will they with no ECU connected or not?), but also has a 2.1 lump out of an early XM sitting spare. Will it fit?
He's no stranger to conversions; he's got another Xantia TD he's put a BX 17TD lump in it (came as an engine-in-bits job).

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 13 Apr 2004, 21:51

I reckon it should be possible because that engine was fitted to the 406, which is closely related to the Xantia, isn't it? I would try and arrange to see under the bonnet of a 406 2.1 (either in a dealer's or breaker's yard) and see how it all fits in.
I seem to remember a discussion recently about the immobiliser fitted to Xantia pumps which will not allow the engine to start without the correct code being entered. I think it was relatively easy to remove this part. It involves either a punch or vice grips, depending on the make of pump.

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 13 Apr 2004, 21:52

Since the Xantia was sold with the 2.1 lump, there is no reason why it shouldn't fit. However, the version fitted to the Xantia was the late (electronically controlled injection) version, so you might have a run in with an over-ambtious tester if he realises what you've done.
//NiSk

Post by **philhoward** » 13 Apr 2004, 21:57

I reckon it'll physically fit in the space, but more on the silly questions of Engine mounts, gearboxes (i guess the 1.9TD one will fit/be man enough), exhausts, etc.
The Immobiliser part of the 1.9 pump had already been removed, incase that was the problem...just the ECU interaction is an unknown quanitity - i.e. will it run without a functioning ECU or not?

nick · Post by **nick** » 13 Apr 2004, 22:38

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NiSk</i>

, the version fitted to the Xantia was the late (electronically controlled injection) version, so you might have a run in with an over-ambtious tester if he realises what you've done.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That shouldn't be a problem (for the foreseeable future anyway), the UK MOT emissions test for diesels only differentiates between pre August 1979 and post August 1979 vehicles, and between turbo and non-turbo.
If the engine could pass the emissions test in a 1991 (or whatever) XM, it will still pass in a 1996 Xantia, under the current test regs.
Nick

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 13 Apr 2004, 23:05

Yes it will run without the ECU, but it would make a racket as it would be at full advance without the ecu to provide timing correction.
Thing is if its got an ECU its also got the dreaded immobiliser, these can and do cause mayhem when they start going a bit daft, even if its only the stop solenoid which is faulty is now a toad to change, because its hidden under a steel cover.
I don't think the ECU has any bearing on the function of the immobiliser in the case of the diesels, where as with the petrols it is an integral function of it.
I saw a 2.1 estate at a breakers that had the engine removed, I seem to remember the steelwork of the r/h mount looking markedly different from that of the 1.9td.
Dave

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 13 Apr 2004, 23:14

Yes! Dave's right. The top engine mount on the 2.1 is quite different to the 1.9. Most of the attachment area on the bodywork is down the side of the inner wing, all of which it is necessary to remove before taking off the front engine covers.

Kered · Post by **Kered** » 14 Apr 2004, 23:35

The gearbox for the 2.1 is a much heftier lump than the 1.9.
Mr Haynes quotes the BE3 for all models except the 2.1 which is an ML5T.
So will the 2.1 actually fit a BE3. Also the ML5T has cable gear change not rods.
Derek

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 15 Apr 2004, 13:56

Anyone know which gearbox they fitted to the 2.1 TD12 Xantia? Is it the same ME5T (rod change) that I have in my XM TD12?
I wonder if the top engine mount from an XM TD12 would fit a Xantia? they are more plentiful at the scrap yards.
//NiSk

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 20 Apr 2004, 03:51

Just a question, does the 2.1 engine get its extra capacity from a wider bore or a longer stroke? If it just a longer stroke would it not be feasible to fit a 1.9 head and anxilliaries (and mounts) to give the desired outcome?

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 20 Apr 2004, 13:36

The big advantage of the 2.1 is it's 12-valve head. That's what makes it so economical and stuffing any extra air into the 1.9 head would raise the compression to an unacceptable level.
//NiSk