C5 III X7: Jack stands

j001 · Unread post by **j001** » 20 May 2021, 13:13

Hi guys,
Anyone knows how to safely lift X7 if I want to insert jack stands under jacking points? Or are there any safe places where I can put them?
Servicebox says not to use subframe for lifting or supporting, instead use central pillar between doors. I did just that, but with this "official" method I'm not able to put jack stand on the opposite front side, because when lifting the other side (under central pillar), the weight of the car makes it to tilt to front making me unable to insert jack under that jacking point. So I had to use hydraulic jack under one of the jacking points and put stands under subframe, just in case the jack was failing.

How do you put X7 on jack stands? Are there places where I can lift both wheels at once (front or rear)?
Also, one of my front jacking point lips is bent (see photo), should I be concerned?
Thank you.

GiveMeABreak · Unread post by **GiveMeABreak** » 20 May 2021, 16:54

The Citroen jack has a groove that is designed for the lip to fit into when jacking. To lift these with a hydraulic jack, you need some rubber cushions with the groove in that you can buy.

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=68238&hilit=jack

j001 · Unread post by **j001** » 21 May 2021, 12:54

Yes, I do have such rubber cushion, however the damage on this one is already done.

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 21 May 2021, 13:47

Not sure what the three black marks are, but you can usually return that vertical edge to tidy vertical with an engineering vice supported on your hydraulic jack, and lifted up to straighten/squeeze the bent-over edge.
Then protect with wax/underseal, where the paint has likely cracked.

Grooved pad should do the trick in future, or just jack under the subframes/suspension. Fine on most cars, so unsure why X7 should be an exception. Someone will know!!

GiveMeABreak · Unread post by **GiveMeABreak** » 21 May 2021, 15:27

It's the design - there's a danger of structural distortion damage so must not be used to support the car - I think this just about covers it:

Warnings:

Front of the vehicle

CAUTION: The front of the vehicle can only be lifted one side at a time.
ESSENTIAL: Do not lift the vehicle by taking weight under the front subframe. Do not support the vehicle under the front subframe.

ESSENTIAL: Never take weight on the front panel support
and the front part of the engine subframe.

ESSENTIAL: Place the jack under the centre pillar
and insert a flexible block at "a".

Rear of the vehicle

All types (Except DT20 engine)

ESSENTIAL: Do not lift under the spare wheel (risk of distorting the floor. Do not lift under the rear subframe crossmember.

Use lateral lifting or rear lifting (see below).

ESSENTIAL: Never place a block between the jack and the strengthener "b".

Place the jack under the strengthener "b".

DT20 engine (3.0 HDi)

ESSENTIAL: Do not lift the vehicle by taking weight under the rear central jacking point.

CAUTION: The rear central jacking point does not allow lifting on engine version DT20 (Risk of distortion).

Sideways lifting

Sideways lifting (Vehicle in normal condition of use)

ESSENTIAL: Do not position the jack away from the lifting points.

Side lifting with the hydraulic suspension faulty (Vehicle in low position)

If the vehicle height does not permit access to the side jacking points:

Position "go jack" type trolleys
Lift the vehicle with the aid of the tool ("go jack" type)
Position a roller jack or a lift block under the side jacking points when the height is sufficient

Lifting by vehicle jack

N.B.: The jack, the extension and the winding handle are to be found in the vehicle toolkit located inside the spare wheel.


Front of the vehicle Correct position of the jack (1).	Rear of the vehicle Correct position of the jack (1).

Timing

Incorrect position of the axle stand

ESSENTIAL: Do not position the stands under the jacking points.

Correct position of the axle stand

Lifting on a wheel free lift

Equipment and tools concerned:

2 column lift
Lift accessory with blocks

ESSENTIAL: If raising the vehicle on a lift, wheels hanging, remove the cap of the LDS fluid reservoir. Refit the cap of the LDS fluid reservoir, once you have lowered the vehicle.

ESSENTIAL: Fit safety straps when the vehicle is placed on a wheel free lift (risk of tilting of the vehicle as a result of lightening when a heavy unit is removed).

Fitting the safety straps

CAUTION: Check the condition of the safety straps before using them: Do not use worn safety straps.
CAUTION: Do not use straps that show any traces of oil or grease: risk of soiling the carpets or the seats.

Place protectors on the front seats and on the fragile parts of the vehicle.

Example:

2 column lift
Place the safety straps [4376-T] under the arm of the lift and loop through the vehicle

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 21 May 2021, 19:18

OK, I understand the prohibition on lifting the car by jacking under the front subframe front crossmember - something which I wouldn't consider on virtually any car.
But is it not possible to jack under the rear of the front subframe, where it supports the body shell?

GiveMeABreak · Unread post by **GiveMeABreak** » 21 May 2021, 23:42

It says not as above Chris:

Rear of the vehicle

All types (Except DT20 engine)

ESSENTIAL: Do not lift under the spare wheel (risk of distorting the floor. Do not lift under the rear subframe crossmember.

Use lateral lifting or rear lifting (see below).

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 22 May 2021, 07:28

I was referring to the rear end of the front subframe, Marc - usually a flattish area where a large bolt secures the front subframe to the body. This is a major weight-support point, and immensely strong. Presumably there is such a point on X7 ?
.

GiveMeABreak · Unread post by **GiveMeABreak** » 22 May 2021, 10:46

I wouldn't like to say Chris - but there must be a good reason for them specifically stating the above - and I do know that some X7 vehicles have steel subframes and other engines have aluminium subframes - so it may be to do with this and associated structural / body parts.

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 22 May 2021, 16:43

It specifically prohibits the boot floor/spare wheel area (weak panelling) and front part of the front subframe (a subframe extension, there to support panelling, not the weight of the car) - so both of those instructions are completely understandable.

However, the rear securing areas of the front subframe have to be a different kettle of fish, as they are designed to take the weight of the power unit and the body. This seems no different from many other cars (eg XM), where sizable flat areas of subframe are an ideal place to position either a trolley jack and/or axle stands, preferably with a wooden pad.

Jacking up under PSA sills (so-called "jacking points") has turned out to be a bit of a mug's game, and has inflicted a lot of damage to those points where a suitably grooved cushioning pad isn't used.

As the age of the vehicle increases, the sill sections do not increase in strength, which is another reason to avoid jacking there. At least most tyre bays and workshops make a habit of using thick pads on the lift arms, which is more than many owners are equipped to do.

Unread post by **KennyW** » 22 May 2021, 22:30

Blimey,

I never thought jacking a car up was so complicated.
FYI, I jack my car up at the front at the points mentioned by Chris.
The rear used the jacking points individually with a rubber pad.
I tend to use my vehicle ramps and drive my car on them (suspension set on highest setting)

Kenny

Unread post by **bobins** » 22 May 2021, 22:47

If I'm needing to do jack the car for more than a wheel change then I jack under either the rear mounts of the front subframe, or the front mounts of the rear subframe. To be clear - these are where the subframe bolts to the body, and not where extraneous bits of the car hang off the subframe. If the car can't take being jacked at those points, then it shouldn't be on the road.

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 23 May 2021, 07:51

Some good sense there.

The use of the sill area as a jacking point is historic, and has a lot to do with the traditionally provided scissor/screw jack needing to have somewhere easy for the driver to be able to slot it in at the roadside, and without venturing under the car.

Oldies here will be able to remember the OE screw jacks that had a short arm that slotted into a horizonal tube, incorporated into the sill box section. As the cars aged, and rust set in to the often unprotected box sections, jacking the car with one of these could easily rip the tube out of the sill.

IMO, the token sill 'engagement points' we now have seem more like a factory-assembly anchor point, rather than a sturdy point to raise the complete weight of a laden car, without damage. So many of them just end up bent.

The car manufacturers have done their best recently to elimate the jack (no spare wheel, no jack, just a squirty can for punctures...) in the desperate pursuit for a snippet more mpg, but have been forced to rethink this, after storms of complaints. Meanwhile, some of us just use some common sense and established sound practice, to keep out of trouble.

torneol · Unread post by **torneol** » 23 May 2021, 09:52

Where can you lift X7, if support stand is going under the liftingpoint?

If subframe is not an option, what we got? Are ramps our only hope?

coarist · Unread post by **coarist** » 23 May 2021, 20:39

In practice, putting axle stands to the front sub-frame is workable. I have done this on the C5 X7 Tourer. Choose a support point on the sub-frame carefully to minimize chances of slipping. I also place spent packaging paper (of good thickness, such as carton box paper) to prevent the axle stand scoring the sub-frame.

I remember the last time that I did this, I removed the engine undercover also. For example, draining fluid or changing timing belt would need removing this cover.

Keep an awareness of the weight of the drive train (engine and gearbox combined). Suitable support point as far to the front as possible is desirable.

Here is how I raised the car by jacking the sill, then sliding a pair of stands under the rear alloy tunnel on each side. The photograph shows the rear axle and the pair of yellow axle stands are visible.

The support points to rest on the axle stands are chosen by inspecting the underside after the car has been raised by a jack. I avoided link rods, arms and bushes. This is such that the suspension geometry (toe, camber, caster) are preserved and not upset. I found flat, strong locations on the alloy axle tunnel. These points are as far out from the centre as possible to maximize static (non-dynamic) stability.

When this photograph is taken my aim is to remove the wheels. It is best to loosen the wheel nuts while the car is still on the ground. After it is raised, the wheel nuts are then loosen completely and the wheels are removed.

(1) where possible use wheel chocks on the wheels that are to remain on the ground. Place them before jacking. Check after jacking and re-position them closest to the wheels (push them inwards) if necessary.
(2) if raising rear axle, automatic gearbox put gear lever in P position. If manual gearbox, engage first gear. Also, if manual gearbox, do not forget to release back to neutral after you have finished working on the car.
(3) Likewise, if raising front axle, apply handbrake fully and use wheel chock for extra peace of mind.

For reference, here is an illustration found in other posts. In my photograph, the points that I rested the axle stands correspond to Z2. For the front, Z1 seemed to be a good candidate.

This is my own experience that I considered appropriate and successful. The reader is to reference the information using discretion and judgment.

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