Have I bought a Lemon?!

This is the Forum for all your Peugeot Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

sullivj
Posts: 2
Joined: 03 Apr 2021, 07:43

Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by sullivj »

I purchased a 2015 Partner with 58,000 and full history. It’s an automatic. I have a plan to turn it into a micro camper.

I was given two options by the dealer:- A ‘warranty included’ sale, or a ‘trade sale’ with no warranty for £300 less. My budget dictated the latter.

As soon as I drove it off the lot, I thought ‘wow that’s not very smooth’. It changes through the gears OK, but the problem is with slow speed manoeuvring. It judders and lurches BADLY and seems like it’s going to stall, when you move it around slowly. It’s definitely not supposed to be like this!

Having read a few posts, I’m concerned that it MIGHT need a new clutch and dual mass flywheel, which is of course mega money.

I think a gearbox update MIGHT help.

Are they any tests I can do to diagnose the fault myself? I was told there’s a guy on here called Marc, that really knows how these things work. Clearly it’s a complex system so I need to find an expert. Any recommendations close to Gatwick Airport?

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 23140
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2428

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi

You may be referring to the semi-automatic gearboxes as opposed to a proper automatic with torque converter.

The latter is simply a manual box and clutch that are hydraulically actuated to do the gear changes and clutch operation for you.

Yes they are horrible systems when they go wrong, as they really need to be properly diagnosed. They can be really expensive to fix. A software update is unlikely to fix this sort of thing, but if Iwere you, take it back, as warranty or not, it has to be fit for purpose under the law. Getting it diagnosed and repaired is likely to cost you regardless, so return it or get them to rectify it.

admiral51
Donor 2019
Posts: 2240
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
x 248

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by admiral51 »

I think you need to get some clarity for yourself on the "trade sale" element of the transaction.
Hopefully you have had it less than 30 days. I am no expert on consumer law but i would expect that unless you were specifically told about any issues prior to the "trade sell" that the dealer knew about or could reasonably have been able to identify to you( this is where you need to check the law) then i think within 30 days you have the right to return the vehicle and get a full refund or get them to repair it.
The 30 day limit is important, you have to let them know and offer them the chance to repair or return the vehicle within that time frame, make sure it is done via email text etc, something you can produce.
To my mind "trade sale" by a dealer is similar to "sold as seen" by a private seller but a dealer now has more responsabilty under consumer law and cannot legally do it unless i believe sold to another dealer ie a "trade sale".

Could be 100% wrong but.......

Colin

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 23140
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2428

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Worth noting, but you get the points raised...
When you sell a used motor vehicle to a retail customer, you are entering into a legally binding contract. The customer has the right to expect the vehicle to be of a satisfactory quality; fit for the purpose, and, as described.

As a trader, misleading consumers by using phrases such as “Trade Sale – Sold as Seen” or “No Refunds” is not only illegal but also completely voids the contract.

The only occasion whereby this term could possibly be used, is for private sales. A private sale is defined as a private individual selling to another private individual, not a trader selling to a private individual.

For dealers selling used vehicles to other traders, it is a pointless activity using the term ‘Trade Sale’ as this is implicit, i.e. stating the obvious. In short, “Trade Sale – Sold as Seen”, should never appear on your customer invoices unless you would like a meeting with your local trading standards officer and it is a waste of your time if you are selling to another trader. So, don’t do it – you have been warned!

For further guidance on compliance with Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Sales of Goods Act 1979, the Office of Fair Trading has produced a pdf guide especially for second hand car dealers.

admiral51
Donor 2019
Posts: 2240
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
x 248

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by admiral51 »

Somewhere in my old grey matter the consumer rights act was updated in 2016/17 and that is where i am getting the 30 day limit from i think, it is okay to mention/inform of a problem but 30 days is the limit to state you want to return and get a full refund ?

Colin

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 23140
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2428

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by GiveMeABreak »


sullivj
Posts: 2
Joined: 03 Apr 2021, 07:43

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by sullivj »

Thanks for the advice guys - I will take a look into it.

Marc is right - it is a semi automatic box.

The dealer went to great lengths to describe it as a ‘trade sale’, even over-writing the invoice with ‘we do not conduct trade sales with consumers’. Presumably in an attempt to evade his obligation.

If it can’t be returned, does anyone know of a competent repairer in the south east?

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6677
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1151

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by white exec »

Be determined to get shot of the vehicle - ie go for a refund.
It will prove an expensive future liability. Lots of such reports here.

Peter.N.
Donor 2020
Posts: 10550
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 481

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by Peter.N. »

If you do return it and get another don't buy any sort of auto unless you really need it, they all go wrong eventually, manual boxes usually last the life of the car.

Peter

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 23140
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2428

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There are going to be costs with this if you keep it - diagnosing these systems can be notoriously difficult and expensive time-wise - even the dealers have been known to just replace the whole unit and this costs £1000s. Resetting the gearbox / clutch biting points requires the correct diagnostic tools which would have to be done after a clutch replacement.

Have a read of my post here and what's involved - but this is not opf course saying you have the same issue:

viewtopic.php?p=603367#p603367

I think you are on a hiding to hell with it so reject it if within time - or pursue repairing it via the dealer as it was not fit for purpose.

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 11465
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 1285

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I recall Daviemck2006 having an issue with a Sensodrive gearbox, and then getting rid of the car once it was fixed. He then mentioned (around a year later) that the same vehicle was up for sale (it may have been as 'spares or repairs'). The EGS gearbox may have been a good concept, but Citroen did not implement it well.

Fourth post down on the following page;

viewtopic.php?p=460747
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 04 Apr 2021, 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 5064
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 989

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

One of my trade acquaintances was persuaded by a customer to sell a van at a discount for a lower price i.e. a large discount for 'No guarantee' , when the van broke down several months later and he declined to help the buyer he was taken to court where the judge told him "This was a clear attempt by yourself to deny the customer his statutory rights."

He was ordered to repay the customer the original price plus costs.

You cannot in law sell a vehicle to a private punter as a 'Trade deal'

There is however the fact that if you are a trader, even part time, then the rule doesn't apply.

User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 23140
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2428

Re: Have I bought a Lemon?!

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I was hoping you would chip in with your experience on this Eric - it's as I thought. :wink: