C5 battery and CAN codes

This is the place for all your Diagnostic related questions or advice.

Moderator: RichardW

trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Hello everyone,

The recent cold snap finished off the battery in my facelift C5 (2007 hdi Exclusive) and I was rather slow in getting a replacement. Now with the new battery on the car I have a number of 'interesting' fault codes which are reluctant to clear properly, plus the added feature of the headlights and wipers springing into action when the ignition is off. I can work through the fault codes and clear them but they merely return after the next drive. The fault codes affect the rain sensor/brightness, engine relay, suspension, anti lock braking, suspension, power steering and more, all with CAN related messages.

Looking at previous threads on the C5 (and with assistance from Marc – thanks again) I suspect I have a vci which is too old to work effectively with the car, although I have updated the Lexia fairly recently. The specification of the two elements is:

Vci ACTIA 9780.z5 s/n 921815B/40W07/0005451
Lexia version 7.76

Before the battery failed the car behaved predictably and only threw up the occasional fault code, tyre pressure not monitored, etc etc so I am assuming the latest list of fault codes results from my slowness in replacing the battery? I would prefer to be able to tackle and resolve these issues myself rather than entrusting a dealer or independent garage to read and clear them so I am expecting to have to contact Easy Diagnostics in the near future but in the meantime I would appreciate your collective input and views.

Thanks,

Paul
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2021
Posts: 11869
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 1464

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I would try doing a BSi reset first (if you have not already done so). That would effectively do a controlled shut down of the ECUs, and does normally clear any glitches (although this will not fix actual problems). All it will cost you is a bit of time.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 51&t=61997
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks for the prompt reply James, I have done a few BSI resets as I have to disconnect the battery every time I leave the car otherwise the headlights and wipers are on and off!
One thing which does over ride the headlight/wiper ‘mind of their own’ is to leave the side lights switched on, which will then flatten the new battery........
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2021
Posts: 11869
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 1464

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

The BSi reset is much more than just unplugging/plugging in the battery. If the procedure is properly done it allows the ECUs to shut down properly, and then to boot up cleanly. Liken the procedure to shutting down a PC (running Windows). When you tell it to shut down Windows goes through a procedure where it closes down any open apps, saves any data, and so on. Just unplugging the battery on the car is a bit like pulling the mains lead out of the PC; the PC 'dies' without 'cleaning' itself up, and then, when the power is restored, the 'rubble' of the crash is still there, and getting in the way.

It is always worth doing the BSi reset procedure, as all it costs you is time, and it almost certainly cannot cause any more problems (and could very well help clear up those you have).

Oh, are you certain the battery is the RIGHT one for YOUR C5? Somebody recently (on the forum) had their battery fail, but the replacement was not the right TYPE of battery (I think it was for a car with Start/Stop technology, and their car did not have this), which caused other issues.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks James, I fully understand the pc analogy - looking at the step by step guide from Marc I can see I may well have rushed it. I will revisit the bsi reset tomorrow (covid19 jab this evening) and see what happens...
The battery I fitted is as per the Yuasa web site and I do have faith in their products.
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25121
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2773

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Be aware that you will have a Battery Charge Status Unit fitted and this can take some time (uninterrupted - as in not opening the doors or unlocking the car) typically overnight from when the new battery is fitted, for the BCSU to calibrate properly. If you are still getting weird behaviour, then you may have a Comms unit problem if it relates to wipers or lights, but once you have given it a day or so, run a Global Test, check all the faults, clear and run another test to see what remains. Pop up any fault codes remaining here.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Hi Marc,

After a week of using the car a number of times, disconnecting the battery every night, reconnecting the next morning as per BSI re set steps, reading and clearing fault codes here are today's fault codes:

BSI F00C Body CAN
Alarm F00A CAN
Airbag F00A Perm - CAN
Injection P1351 and P0299
Engine Relay F07A CAN Network
Anti lock braking Remote/Permanent x 3 - Engine ECU, BSI Function, No communications with engine ECU
Suspension P05D2
Power Steering U1108 Remote/permanent fault Engine status information no signal
Directional Headlamps Temporary - no dialogue with injection ECU, no communications.

After reading theses codes I disconnected the battery to avoid the headlights and wipers coming on again as I type this message. At some points this week they have taken about 30 minutes to start up after the car has been parked up, each time they can be stopped by switching on the side lights. Sometimes they have sprung into life after only a few minutes. I have safe parking at work so have left the drivers window down, disconnected the battery whilst at work but obviously I don't want to live with this 'feature' much longer. All of the above fault codes require clearing.

Can you give me some guidance on how to successfully clear the above codes and whether the kit I have is up to the job?

Many thanks in advance,

Paul
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25121
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2773

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I think you have a lot more going on there - I suspect your BSI may be faulty as so many systems seem affected and you have ruled out battery issues. I think you may need to see a dealer to get this confirmed though. The F00A fault is a non-specific and undefined fault with the CAN network. Seeing as the BSI is the main controlling computer for this, I would think this likely to be at fault.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks again Marc. I rather suspected the BSI was going to be the culprit as it gets so many mentions. Do you think it is sensible for me to approach BSI repair specialists? I ask as my experience with dealers and some independant garages has not always been positive (no pun intended!).

Paul
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25121
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2773

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If you are going to get it removed and repaired - then you'll need to check whether they also will reset or virginise the BSI after the repairs or as part of the repair - as it will mean configuring it properly which is usually done via a dealer from their servers and then checked for correct configuration options for any options or accessories.

If you get a new one from a dealer, then it can be quite expensive, as for the C5 MK II Citroen are no longer providing exchange BSIs. The only option left is a new one which is preconfigured at point of order based on your VIN and these are as of today £535.86 inc. VAT from Citroen. You could ask them for a quote to supply, fit and configure to get an idea of the fitting, coding and labour time now that you have the retail price of the actual BSI.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

Thanks again Marc for the propmt and clear reply. Given the likley amount involved I am going to take my time to decide what, if anything (positive), I do and in the meantime work around the glitches and foibles.

All the best,

Paul
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25121
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2773

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The repairers may be able to configure it back for you - so worth exploring that with them too. Then there is the possibility of finding a second hand matching BSI - but again this will need virginising and programming before you can use it in your car. But it may again be worth checking ALL the fuses and electrical connections to the BSI in case something has become disturbed, Also if work has been done on the car, this can also disturb electrical connections - especially on the wiring connectors / pins in the blocks. Also check your engine Fuse Box and all fuses there as this supplies power to the BSI.

It may be worth trying to find a good auto electrician with experience of this sort of thing who can test the supplies and CAN connections.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

OK, well the only work that has been done in the past few weeks is to replace the battery, and that process has been done a few times (every time the ailing battery was charged off car), plus the fitting of the new one. During the weeks since the old battery went into it's final stages the parking sensors have given up - two centre ones at the back. I have pulled and cleaned the connectors from the unit in the boot space (they were all clean anyway, but....) In December 2019 I had the clutch/DMF replaced by an independent garage - after fixing the clutch I am pretty sure they didn't follow battery connection process as I noticed the font sidelight bulbs were both blown. a few days later, so I disconnected and re connected as per your guide.
I haven't pulled, cleaned and replaced the fuses as I figured they haven't been disturbed (by me) and I didn't want to add any other possible problems. However, I will do that carefully tomorrow. I could believe that there is a possible loose connection as the car was quite well behaved today. I drove 26 miles to work, left the car outside with the side lights on (which stops the headlights/wipers springing into life) for about an hour, drove home and left it outside the house WITHOUT the side lights on. The lights and wipers started but only after a delay of at least 30 minutes. It is now in the garage, battery disconnected, and all faults cleared.
I will update tomorrow - thanks again Marc.
trapa57
Donor 2020
Posts: 26
Joined: 26 Sep 2013, 12:30
x 2

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by trapa57 »

I am pleased to say that everything calmed at the start of the week, initiated by cleaning the fuses in the under bonnet fuse box. The mini blade fuses had a dark brown coating on them but the larger blade fuses did not seem affected in the same way (???). After cleaning them the car ran smoother so I felt I was getting somewhere. I then repeated the process in the cabin fuse box where I also found that fuses F8 and F10 were reversed, and one of the electric seat fuses was a 20A instead of a 30A. Since then I have been able to leave the car for 8 - 9 hours without the lights/wipers springing into action although I have yet to leave it overnight, but that will be the next step.
The mini blade fuses seem to be prone to developing a brown coating, even the spare ones in the glove box, so I have some replacement (Citroen) ones on order. So just one question - is this problem with mini blade fuses common?
Finally, a big thank you to Marc and James for your prompt and knowledgable responses.
Paul
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25121
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 2773

Re: C5 battery and CAN codes

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's not normal for the fuses to be covered in anything to be honest, but if there has been signs of overheating or melting, then obviously this can be a cause. It's always worth checking the obvious first, as there is no telling who has been at the fuses - even when it goes intot he mechanics - they may check a fuse and put it back in the wrong place.

I would still be concerned over this coating and would be looking for sources of overheating though. If there has been some damage from overheating as a result of a higher rated fuse being used instead of a lower rated one, then it is possible that some surrounding damage or melting has been caused. Make sure you check everything as best you can and keep an eye on things.