Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

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Bob L'eponge
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Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Hi all,

I have now had my C5 1.6 HDi Tourer for ten years (now with 260,000 km on the clock) and I am thinking of getting something newer and / or a bit more upmarket. I must admit, something like a Toyota Touring Sports hybrid looks tempting, but then again there is an immaculate 180 Hp 2-litre BlueHDi Hydractive Exclusive EAT6 C5 Tourer from December 2016 close to me, and I have always fancied the luxury of a real hydro-pneumatic Citroen. Given that Citroen no longer make such cars, this seems to be something of a 'now or never' decision.

Thing is, if I buy this I foresee keeping it for at least another 6-8 years, and I am not sure that this will as practical a proposition as running my old C5 has been. (I do all my own repairs.)

First off, it seems later versions of Diagbox are available that will cover this car, but no ServiceBox information seems to exist for cars after 2013. Is this correct? Is this information only available on-line at £££ per hour from Citroen?

I don't tow anything so is the hydro-pneumatic suspension really so much better than the steel spring system I currently have?

I also understand that even with Diagbox, many features relating to the Magnet-Marelli SMEG radio, telephone and navigation system can only be diagnosed and so on via Citroen's servers. Is this a potential problem or are these systems proving to be reliable in the long term?

Any other known issues with the late 180 Hp 2-litre engine or the EAT6 Auto box?

Is this really a 'heart rules the head' thing and I would be better off going over to Toyota?

Any other views on my choice? Might the C5 even become a collector's classic, being (arguably I know) the last 'real' Citroen?

Thanks!

Xantippa
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Xantippa »

Unfortunately BlueHDi engines seem to have more problems than earlier models. As far as I know, problems concern mainly urea-additive system, earlier eolys-system was much more reliable.

Bob L'eponge
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Yes, the complexities of modern diesel engines are something that I wouldn't miss. The FAP system on my car has been very relaible, but as you say the latest engines will have a Urea injection system as well as a FAP system. On the other hand perhaps the EAT box means that the car wouldn't have the DMF / clutch issues that many manual diesel cars seems to have.

My wife has a Toyota which has had zero issues and is good to drive. Rather bland though. I want the C5, but probably need another Toyota!

wheeler
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by wheeler »

Bob L'eponge wrote:
31 Jan 2021, 20:36

My wife has a Toyota which has had zero issues and is good to drive. Rather bland though. I want the C5, but probably need another Toyota!
You generally dont get any hassle with Toyotas, i have always found then ultra reliable..... until they started using BMW Diesel engines.
What were the people at Toyota thinking about? If its not broke and all that?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There's nothing wrong with the Blue HDi overall, it just has the addition of the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) system that injects Urea into the catalytic converter section before the DPF which converts the NOx into H2O and N2. It is separate and in addition to the DPF. The DPF then treats the particulate matter as on previous systems.

The only issues on earlier systems could be a faulty NOx sensor or the wiring or in some cases replacement of the Urea tank.

The SMEG radios should be good to go and you won't need to do anything with them apart from update the firmware / maps.

If you have the opportunity to get a Citroen extended warranty, I would recommend it (if this would be a Citroen approved used car) and if not, look for a decent warranty from another company. The Citroen extended warranty can be had for about £220-250 a year and covers just about everything except obvious wear and tear items like clutch and brakes etc.

Bob L'eponge
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, this would be a 'Citroen Select' car from a Citroen Dealer, so I should be able to take an extended warranty. (Although I guess that also means I would have to let them service the car.)

Are there any parts and repair manuals around for these later moidels?

As I said, this would be a 'now or never' purchase given that these cars will soon be too old to be sold with the full 'Select' warranty cover. However, it does seem that the whole car market is in a huge state of flux at the moment, and I can't help seeing the C5, as luxurious as it might be, as already being close to obsolete. One reason I am looking to change my current C5 is that it is only Euro-4 (even if does have a FAP) and many cities that I visit will be banning the entry of such vehicles from next year, at least when pollution levels rise above a certain level. Edit: In order to find out of entry is permitted on a given day one can download an app that is updated in real time.

Mmm. I have just checked and the intention seems to be that even Euro-6 diesels (such as the one I am looking at) will be banned from many cities in France and Switzerland from 2025, so perhaps a 'Crit'Air 1' vehicle is now the only sensible choice, or maybe a Citroen Ami!
Last edited by Bob L'eponge on 10 Feb 2021, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No manuals available, but Revue Technique do have some available for certain operations here:

https://www.revue-technique-auto.fr/RTA ... ant=425579

If the travelling to cities with Emissions voodoo, then you'll probably need to consider a newer vehicle altogether. Something like a C5 / C3 Aircross or similar that meet the 6D standards now:

A list here of various models
https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/a ... empmodelle

Bob L'eponge
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Thanks for that. I see that even the revue-technique site only has service-related data sheets available.

All a bit academic now, given the emissions issue. I can see why the EU and governments are acting though, especially in the wake of the VW scandal, and perhaps even more so all those who took to blocking their EGR values and 'de fapping' their cars, which resulted in soaring NOx and particulate figures at urban measuring stations. (Looking on that ADAC site some of the NOx figures for even Euro-6b diesels, let alone Euro-5 ones, are shocking, even without the effect of illegal owner modifications.)

It does feel like the end of an era. I see that even the Top Gear site gave the Citroen Ami a 9 out of 10 rating. Don't fancy cruising down to the Med with a sea kayak and a couple of bikes on top of one though!

Bob L'eponge
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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by Bob L'eponge »

Just a quick update, especially for anyone driving in France. The Cri'tAir zones are managed by local authorities, and I see that some are bringing in controls on older diesels faster than others. This means that all 'commercial' Euro-4 diesels are already banned from entering places such as Lyon. Fail to comply and the fine is currently 68 Euros and likely to rise. I have also read that from next year the Controle Technique test will actually measure the vehicle's NOx levels and so on, not just do a smoke opacity test, and those vehicles that don't meet the homologation standards will fail the test. (That probably means all Volkswagens currently on the road, and many others.)

I agree that these changes are absolutely needed, but it is a pity that my own car, although Euro-4, actually adheres to Euro-5 standards, at least with regards particulates, being the 'Airdream' model that was fitted with a FAP before these were required. (It has also just passed the CT with no faults, having a smoke opacity value of 0.2m-1 when the pass value is 3.0m-1, and is 0.7m-1 for Euro-6 compliant diesels) It drives like new and is in great condition, but is now pretty much only good for the scrap heap.

Bottom line is, when it comes to passenger cars it looks like diesel is dead, or at least drawing its last breaths of NOX and DPMs.
Last edited by Bob L'eponge on 10 Feb 2021, 20:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is a 'last of the line' C5 Tourer a practical long-term proposition?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

All I’ll add on that matter is good luck France! They will suffer the most in lost revenue from tourism and everything associated with consumer spending.

Thankfully I live in the country with no such draconian measures - yet!