e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

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NewcastleFalcon
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e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Thought I would have a bit of a delve, see if I could learn something. They all seem a bit of a dead end and a retrograde step to me.

I kicked off having a look at this about e-fuels.

Definition of E-fuels
E-fuels are gaseous and liquid fuels such as hydrogen, methane, synthetic petrol, and diesel fuels generated
from renewable electricity.

The German Association of the Automotive Industry (VDA) commissioned a report published in 2017 “E-Fuels – The potential of electricity-based fuels for low emission transport in the EU”
It concluded amongst other things
Key results of the study:
E-fuels are necessary to meet the EU climate targets within the transport sector.
Even in a battery electric drive dominated scenario, the final energy demand of all transport modes in the
EU will be met with more than 70% of e-fuels in 2050. The majority of these e-fuels will be used for aviation,
shipping and freight transport.
Regards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The theory would appear to be using "clean" renewable electricity, and turning it into a storable form, to be used in difficult to electrify sectors of transport....aviation and shipping, trucks and rail to a lesser extent.

Waiting in the wings with varying shades of blue/grey and black is the fossil fuel industry with its take on creating cleaner synthetic fuels, and hydrogen from their existing stock-in-trade oil and gas.
temp3.png
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

This is a useful idea; a non polluting engine that is driven by a waste product from production of a different material. The engine is not powerful enough to use directly in transportation, but they already have found markets they would help in;

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technol ... r-BB1cDKKU

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

One of the giants of the Energy world (previously known as the oil and gas world) Shell, has recently entered into a contract with DHL to supply their aircraft with "sustainable aviation fuel" at Schiphol Airport.

How soon before "sustainable automotive fuel" appears with a bit of marketing. :?:

Shell to supply DHL with sustainable aviation fuel

Here's the medium sized print which dilutes the sustainable claim, I suspect the small and very small print could well burst the "sustainable" bubble.
The agreement will enable DHL Express to take regular flights using SAF, an important step forward in its ambition of reducing all logistics-related emissions to zero by 2050. The volume of SAF being supplied by Shell Aviation represents a full year of DHL Express’s fuel requirements from Schiphol Airport, helping to reduce its emissions from this European hub. The SAF will be used in blended form and is made from sustainably sourced, renewable waste and residue raw materials. In its neat form and over the lifecycle it reduces greenhouse gas emissions by up to 80% compared to fossil jet fuels.
Wonder what the % sustainable the blend will be.....I would guess at 10% bit like E10 petrol which was on its way to the UK.


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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Guess what.....BP do their version of Sustainable Air Fuel. It seems like SAF is the in vogue term.

They call it BP Bio Jet.
https://www.bp.com/en/global/air-bp/avi ... -fuel.html
Our sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) is called BP Biojet. It is produced from sustainable, renewable feedstocks such as used cooking oil and other wastes. SAF can drop straight in to existing infrastructure and an aircraft. It is approved for use in jet engines with no technical changes to aircraft necessary.

In 2016 we were the first operator to start commercial supply of SAF through an existing hydrant fuelling system, at Norway’s Oslo airport, under our BP Biojet brand.

Reducing greenhouse gas emissions by up to 80% over its lifecycle compared to the industry-average fossil jet fuel, BP Biojet has been supplied at 16 airports worldwide across three continents– including in Norway, Sweden, France and in the US.
Regards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Who is most interested in alternative liquid fuels/gaseous fuels......the oil industry.

If you want "the other side of the coin" view there is no greater exponent than the American Petroleum Institute (API) and it has recently released its 2021 State of American Energy Report.
https://stateofamericanenergy.org/reports/soae-2021/
No surprises. no limits exploration, drilling, and fracking business as usual. Cut down a bit on methane escapes and oil leaks in production and processing and transport, and use a bit of Carbon Capture Utilisation and Storage to de-CO2 some processing. Burn natural gas in homes & businesses, and burn petroleum/diesel/kerosene in transport as usual with no carbon capture and storage, but try to clean it up a bit.
As the primary trade association of the oil and natural gas industry in the USA, API represents nearly 600 members involved in all aspects of petroleum and natural gas, and has its roots going back to 1919. Recently Total withdrew from the group, due to an increasing divergence between Total's aims and strategy and that of the API.
France’s Total quits powerful US oil lobby over climate policy

While the European wing of global oil and gas companies the likes of BP, Shell, and Total are reforming into Energy companies with increasing investments in renewables, the US wing remain very much business as usual oil and especially Natural gas centric.

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Boeing says it will deliver 100% biofuel planes by 2030

Well in the absence yet of a workable alternative for long haul air travel, looks like 100% biofuel will find a market.



Regards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Porsche...came across a comment which made reference to this.

Porsche petrol-engined 911 has a long future
Porsche Plans To Develop Synthetic Fuels To Keep Your Classics On The Road

70% of all Porsches that have ever been made are still on the road.

Porsche’s CEO Oliver Bloom is committed to not killing off their petrol-engine vehicles. So much so that he believes the 911 will be powered by an internal combustion for at least the next 10 years. “The secret is to think about more efficient petrol engines and in 10 years’ time perhaps, the use of synthetic gasoline,” said Bloom.

er....wonder how he plans to sell the synthetic gasolene Porsche 911's...get round the ban with a bit of BS or a bit of lobbying. Maybe this is how the conversation might go.

"Fine German Company/ years of tradition/ they will be designed to run on e-fuel, no net carbon emissions, please let us set fire to something and expel the gasses through an exhaust pipe so it makes a nice noise."

EU response, "yes that's fine agree with all you say, the Porsche 911 will be an exception" the ban is just for the general riff raff.

Regards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Ducati Explores wastes their time with ?Synthetic Fuels Before Committing To Electric
Despite a growing electric market attracting younger, hipper riders, updates on a potential electric Ducati have been non-existent. Even with the brand struggling to attract new riders (due to pricing), Ducati VP of Sales Francesco Milicia isn’t sold on electric just yet.

"Will we produce an electric Ducati soon? No,” stated Milicia. “We think that for the kind of machine we produce now, an electric motorcycle cannot guarantee the pleasure, the range, the weight etc. that Ducati riders expect.

"We are also looking carefully at other solutions for zero or minimal emissions, such as synthetic fuel. Other brands in our (Volkswagen) group such as Porsche are looking at it and it’s something we are looking at in the medium term."
Hands up if you knew Ducati were part of the Volkswagen Group which certainly reaches far and wide, they own Lamborghini too.

Regards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Almost everything European in the motor business is now part of Volkswagen Neil, from Sweden to the south of Spain they've snaffled it all up quietly since the British army set it back on its feet post war.

I wonder if the Bundesbank (German government) underwrote all the financing.

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I do get slightly irritated at a bit of petty state aid squabbling like some minor Gibraltar transgression during our period of membership of the EU, when you find Electricite de France marching all over the energy sector and Deutsche Bahn their fingers in every transport pie winning contracts all over the place.

Not surprising though...

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

VW breaks with German auto industry over efuels

Volkswagen and other members of the lobby group the German Association of the Automotive Industry (VAD) have very differing views on hydrogen and e-fuels, and the German government’s proposed plan to implement the EU renewable energy directive.

Europe’s biggest car manufacturer broke with the industry by calling the use of hydrogen in cars and trucks “nonsensical” and “so-called potential of these alternatives for liquid fuels is massively overestimated”. It added that the production of synthetic fuels from surplus renewable energies was “complex, cost-intensive, not very climate-efficient and with low efficiency”.

REgards Neil

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by myglaren »

An uncomplimentary article on the import of used cooking oil for biodiesel production.
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Another little piece on e-fuels from the same source, backing up the views expressed by VW (yes...has creditability been restored after dieselgate? some may think not) on the inefficiency of making e-fuel. If its not hydrogen or ammonia but kerosene/diesel/or petrol or biodiesel, then burning it in an ICE is a further efficiency loss as well as the same pollution out of the exhaust pipe, even if neutrality of carbon emissions can be argued/claimed/calculated.


E-fuel would be wasted on cars while it’s badly needed to decarbonise planes and ships – study

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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Who is in charge of Corporate VW Group.
So the VW group publicly state

“so-called potential of these alternatives for liquid fuels is massively overestimated”. It added that the production of synthetic fuels from surplus renewable energies was “complex, cost-intensive, not very climate-efficient and with low efficiency”.

Its little subsidiary Porsche seem to be going well off message and ploughing its own little e-fuel furrow. Not in Europe of course, but they are having a play around in Chile South America to reinvent the e-fuel refinery, partnering with oil companies.
Porsche to begin producing synthetic fuels in 2022
Dedicated plant will produce sustainable fuel for existing combustion-engined Porsche models


The plant is set to be in operation by 2022, and will ramp up to producing 55 million litres of synthetic fuel by 2024, and roughly ten times that amount by 2026. Porsche CEO Oliver Blume outlined the motive for the project: “Their advantages lie in their ease of application: e-fuels can be used in combustion engines and plug-in hybrids, and can make use of the existing network of filling stations.”
Its the wrong side of the coin for me, but it is undoubtedly a bandwagon the fossil fuel industry will look to back.

Regards Neil