Clutch Judder after replacement

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Dazbaby
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Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Hello Forum,

I have just had a new clutch and DMF fitted to my 2005 1.6hdi (110hp) Xsara Picasso and the car, right from the off judders upon normal pulling away in first gear and also in reverse. If you give it a bit of revs you can pull away relatively smoothly however this is not ideal in the long term obviously. The car operates perfectly in all the other gears. The clutch and flywheel were Valeo part numbers 826550 and 836161 respectively and appeared genuine to me however, the garage that fitted them suggest Ebay is awash with Chinese fakes? The rear main seal was replaced and as far as know the slave cylinder was leak free so contamination is probably unlikely although my hunch is that perhaps too much grease was applied to the splines. I am therefore in the position of paying for the parts and labour and having to pay it all again. I don't trust the garage totally as they left a bell housing bolt out and also failed to tell me the undertray had not been refitted however they insist they the flywheel was correctly fitted (they showed me the set-up tool). The situation I guess could either be contamiantion or the failure of a brand new component - if its the first reason I guess the garage is liable but if its the second it would be my shout again as I purchased and supplied the parts. I also think perhaps hanging the gearbox on the first motion shaft or difficulty fitting may have bent the centre plate?
Anyone hear of fake DMF's in circulation or any advice on the way forward?

Thank you
Darren

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white exec
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by white exec »

Oh dear. An object lesson in not using workshop-sourced parts, so in the event of failure (like here) you cannot simply throw the car back at them for rectification.

Unless the garage will accept a reasonable hit (contribution) towards re-doing the job, I suggest you bite the bullet and start again with a trusted workshop that will fit pukka, warranted parts.

Don't forget that Citroen have a tariff of standard jobs (at usually competitive prices), and DMF replacement will be one of them. All parts and labour will be fully warranted.

You could tackle the original workshop, get verification of the authenticity of the parts etc., but it could easily remain fraught and unresolved, so maybe not the way to go. Others may take a different view.

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Hi Chris,
Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. The car was bought very cheap as a non-runner (DMF failure) and as the garage is just over the road from where I work it was very convenient, however in recent times I have been losing faith in the quality of their work. Has anyone heard of fake Valeo parts?
I did email Valeo to verify part numbers etc. over twp weeks ago but they have failed to reply.

Darren

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by GiveMeABreak »

As a Forum donor, you can ask for the part numbers here (not sure if you have already elsewhere on another post that I haven't seen). That would allow you to search for the originals or correct ones from which to make a choice if purchasing them independently. Often Citroen can also be cheaper on things like the clutch kits than aftermarket suppliers. It's always worth getting a quote from the dealer first for a comparison. As Chris says, they also have fixed pricing for certain jobs like the clutch and you can always add on the DMF of course where that is not included.

Anyway if you want the part numbers let me know.

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Hello Marc,
Yes, just for a bit peace of mind the part numbers for the clutch assembly and DMF would be handy if possible please?Thanks
Darren

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No worries - just pop your VIN up here (auto masked on submission from public view).

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Hello Marc,
Much appreciated - its VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks again
Darren
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 29 Dec 2020, 10:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected VIN

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white exec
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by white exec »

Around a year ago I phoned Valeo in the UK to confirm the authenticity of one of their cabin blower control modules, listed on Amazon at a surprisingly good price. Was passed to a technician who cross-checked the item's numbers and components, and the design/markings on the box. Only took a couple of phone calls, and they were really helpful, once you had got past the switchboard.

Do hope a final repair works out, and we'll do our best to help.

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Useful information Chris - thanks for that. Most folks just want to effect a good repair at an economical price and I guess the old addage that if something appears too good to be true, it probably is, but not always. The trouble with todays environment of fakes and copies is that you end up trusting no one and potential savings on parts due to being afraid of getting scammed.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so one thing to watch out for there are now 2 options for the clutch, both 18 teeth, but one being 225 diameter and the other 228 in diameter. This may be down to availability of parts, so they have substituted the clutch and DMF - therefore it's important to match up the other components for the different size:

So whether the juddering is because there are mis-matched parts I can't say.....
image_2020-12-29_095416.png
This is the kit for the DMF and Clutch replacement parts with 228 Diameter:
Reconditioned DMF, part 1613938580, £439.91
Clutch Kit, part 2052X4, £365.54
Flywheel Screw, part 203708, £1.66

These are the options for clutch with 225 Diameter:
A brand new OEM clutch kit, part 2052L2 £365.54 *
A new Citroen Approved cheaper Clutch Kit, part 1636267680, £106.98
A Service Exchange Clutch Kit, part 2051T7, £195.11 *
(Items with an * above carry a refundable surcharge for which I haven't included in the price, but otherwise prices are VAT inclusive.

In case you need them,
Clutch Centring Device, part 1606269680, £12.18
Clutch Release Bearing, part 1611266780 £37.03

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Hello Marc,

Thank you so much for that information - very helpful. With regards to the DMF, should there perhaps be two options, one for the 228mm clutcth and one for the 225mm clutch. Just for information I did a rudimentary check that the clutch plate did indeed fit the swept surface of the flywheel and I remember it did but I did not measure any discrepancy at the inside or outside diameter as I was not aware of any of these issues at the time.
Thanks again for your time.
Darren

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Part 1613938580 is the recommended DMF now Darren (along with associated clutch parts I listed above), as the original DMF (part 0532P7) is no longer available and that is why it lists the substituted parts.

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Understood - thanks very much.
Time to do some digging.
Best regards
Darren

Dazbaby
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by Dazbaby »

Happy New Year Everyone,
Can I just ask if anyone has experience of a clutch plate being fitted the wrong way round? I understand that 1.6hdi clutch requires that the longest protrusion at the hub section faces the flywheel whereas normally this faces toward the gearbox. Could this be the cause of my clutch judder in 1st and reverse or would all the gear shifts be affected? At the moment 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th work fine. I am guessing that someone has come across this as apparently it’s something that happens reasonably often due to mechanic lack of knowledge or diligence.
Any wisdom from someone this has happened to would be appreciated.
Cheers All

petarc1971
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Re: Clutch Judder after replacement

Post by petarc1971 »

Is a set of clutches with a self-locking mechanism (mechanism for unlocking and locking) if so, special tools are needed for mounting. The slats should say which side goes to the flywheel, only the mechanic should look and install it correctly.