Cambelt, what cambelt?

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4770
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 875

Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Gibbo2286 »


User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Mandrake »

Not a new idea actually, and while it has some advantages and is cool from a purely engineering perspective I can't help but feel that money and research spent on trying to squeeze the last little bit out of combustion engines is ultimately futile..

User avatar
ksanturion10
Posts: 155
Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 21:59
x 16

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by ksanturion10 »

The auto(without)motive industry is well aware, that there is only one way to keep the ICE still in the business...but will they DARE :drool:

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42604
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1348

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by CitroJim »

Not new at all... There was once, I think on a racing engine, pneumatically operated valves...

Just goes to prove the old saw of there being nothing new under the sun ;)

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Mandrake »

It's hard to let go of old technology sometimes. It would be akin to inventing a newer smaller more efficient type of (thermonic) valve in the 70's when transistors were already taking over and clearly superior - while it might be a big improvement on existing valves, it's still a valve at the end of the day and about to become obsolete.... :lol:

Another example is Mazda's Skyactiv engine technology - it's a really clever optimisation of the internal combustion engine which had it been released 10 or 20 years ago would have been a breakthrough with many years of useful service. But releasing today in a world where EV's already exist, are already way more efficient than Skyactiv really makes it moot and I wonder if all that research money was well spent in hindsight further developing an outgoing technology. The classic "throwing good money after bad".

Peter.N.
Donor 2020
Posts: 10168
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 391

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Peter.N. »

I suppose its only real advantage is that the valve timing would be infinitely variable, but whether the improved economy would offset the cost of the increased electrical power needed would I think be debatable. Opening valves requires quite a lot of energy.

Peter

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 4477
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1274

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by mickthemaverick »

For anyone not familiar with Mazda's New technology this is a well put together explanation of the principles. The technology has been around for 10+ years with the first production vehicles sold in 2012. :)

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8222
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 342

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Mandrake »

mickthemaverick wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 12:16
For anyone not familiar with Mazda's New technology this is a well put together explanation of the principles. The technology has been around for 10+ years with the first production vehicles sold in 2012. :)
Sorry I couldn't quite remember the correct name, but I was actually referring to SkyActiv-X which only came out 2 years ago. Here's a video about it:



Also:

https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/maz ... kyactiv-x/

Peter.N.
Donor 2020
Posts: 10168
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 391

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Peter.N. »

Thanks for that Mick, interesting. I didn't realise it was the gas temperature that caused pre ignition, thought it was just he heat in the combustion chamber. 15-1 is a terrific ratio, that's around the diesel figure.

I once put paraffin in my side valve Minx when I ran out of fuel, sounded very much like a diesel engine and that only had a compression ratio of 6.5 -1

Peter

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 42604
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1348

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by CitroJim »

Mandrake wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 10:13
It's hard to let go of old technology sometimes. It would be akin to inventing a newer smaller more efficient type of (thermonic) valve in the 70's when transistors were already taking over and clearly superior - while it might be a big improvement on existing valves, it's still a valve at the end of the day and about to become obsolete.... :lol:
I'm not sure that's a good analogy Simon...

Valves, by and large, hit their zenith long before the 70s although new consumer types were still being introduced in the sixties to cope with the demands of the then new technology of colour TV.

On the professional side of the fence, valves are constantly under development for their niche applications where semiconductors can never replace them. High power radio transmitters and so on...

Valves are far from obsolete... Every microwave oven in every kitchen in the land contains one. A Magnetron (the heart of a microwave oven) is simply a specialist valve. It's likely microwave ovens will always be based around a Magnetron for there is no simpler or more economic (cheap) way to produce the very high powered microwave oscillator needed to heat up your meat pie or cook your morning porridge :)

Chances are, if you watch Freeview off-air TV, listen to FM radio and enjoy music, especially classic rock, valves will be involved...

So far, guitarists have never found anything to rival the sound of a valved amp despite advances in software audio processing...

Lots of audiophiles claim only valves can make a decent Hi Fi amp... I'm not entering that argument as its got more facets than a whopping great diamond..

Many valves types remain in production to satisfy the market that still very much exists for them... They will never entirely disappear...

ICE engines will disappear by and and large just as steam engines did once ICE displaced them... ICE engines will become very niche, as steam is...

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2020
Posts: 3488
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 1025

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by bobins »

There's an awful lot of countries around the world where ICEs will still be in great demand for many years yet.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 4477
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1274

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by mickthemaverick »

Does that include ICEland bobins? :-D

User avatar
ksanturion10
Posts: 155
Joined: 14 Oct 2018, 21:59
x 16

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by ksanturion10 »

Speaking of an old technologies... remind me, since when we know about the "invention" of the electric motor? :D

Peter.N.
Donor 2020
Posts: 10168
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
x 391

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Peter.N. »

The first electric motors that were anything like the ones we have now were invented in the 1830's although experimental motors were made earlier than that. The first AC induction motors came about with the spread of AC supplies by Tesla, Edison who was in competition with him favoured DC and DC traction motors were used in trams and industry around the turn of last century.

Peter

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4770
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 875

Re: Cambelt, what cambelt?

Post by Gibbo2286 »