bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

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VINCENTFISHING
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bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Bought as project two hundred and fifty quid,78k miles had recent new exhaust and clutch, cambelt done couple of years ago , car apparently just stopped and wouldnt restart, owner fitted new bsm (£309 !) new coilpack, new plugs, still cranks with no start, checked loom apparently.
Have 3.5bar at fuel rail.
Ive double checked loom from ecu and all seems ok accept on wire had higher resistance,9ohms, so changed that but still no start,
have 12v supply to coilpack , but no spark at coil or plugs,(have checked restances to both primary and secondary coils and all good ,same with plugs)
Have 2.5v from crank sensor when cranking and wires good to ecu,
Have just bought multimeter with hertz so i can check 2 triggers signals from ecu to coilpack(will check tomorrow hopefully).
presume i just set meter to hz, put common lead to earth and probe signal wires with red lead while cranking and see if signal hertz on screen??
if no signal ecu duff ??
any other reasons /test if no signal gratefully recieved.

I have other faults which i dont think are relevent but could be wrong !
lexia accuator tests on coil showed faulty actuation,
P3014 permanent fault, programme motorised throttle limits.
P1153 as above lower limit,
P0485 permanent fault fan unit function coherance(fan stays on with ignition off , have to disconnect plug to avoid battery drain.)
Think i can sort all those out when and if i get car started !

The strange fault i have is the battery light stays on after ignition is off and car locked for about 20 second ish till i presume bsi cuts all power and it goes off,
Have tried pulling all all in car and under bonnet fuses one at a time after battery light goes out to try and avoid damage to bsi, to see if have a drain, but still light stays on, have disconnected ecu which made no difference,
havent gone under bsm to large fuses and tried pulling these , is it worth it ??

Any suggestions or other tests /advice re not starting welcome,

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

A noid light set is a good investment for checking faults like this.
Have you unplugged the ECU connections to check for water ingress? very common on the picasso .
Valve timing ok? Any signs of arcing marks on the outside of the ECU casing?
Have you checked for an injector pulse?
Are you getting 5v feeds on the sensors eg the MAP or coolant temp sensor?

zs&tas
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by zs&tas »

Is it turning over ?

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 24
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

wheeler wrote:
15 Nov 2020, 19:57
A noid light set is a good investment for checking faults like this.
Have you unplugged the ECU connections to check for water ingress? very common on the picasso .
Valve timing ok? Any signs of arcing marks on the outside of the ECU casing?
Have you checked for an injector pulse?
Are you getting 5v feeds on the sensors eg the MAP or coolant temp sensor?
will be checking pulse at coil with hertz meter tomorrow, i believe if no ignition at coil the injectors are automatically disabled by ecu ? however have done injector actuation test with lexia and they passed test.
have had ecu off and inspected with magnifying glass ! no signs of damage of any sort
checking 5v sensor supplies was next test on list after checking coil pulse before condeming ecu.
if no joy after tomorrows test will check timing, would be suprised if timing jumped as belt done not too long ago,but you never know.

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

VINCENTFISHING wrote:
15 Nov 2020, 21:59

will be checking pulse at coil with hertz meter tomorrow, i believe if no ignition at coil the injectors are automatically disabled by ecu ? however have done injector actuation test with lexia and they passed test.
That may be the case but I imagine it will vary between different ECU’s
Did you actually hear the injectors clicking during the auctuator test?
Id say its deffo worth checking the timing before condemning the ECU. Just because it was done recently doesn’t mean it was done right.
ECU failure on these are quite rare unless there is an external reason like water ingress or connecting jump leads round the wrong way.

VINCENTFISHING
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Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

wheeler wrote: That may be the case but I imagine it will vary between different ECU’s
Did you actually hear the injectors clicking during the auctuator test?
Id say its deffo worth checking the timing before condemning the ECU. Just because it was done recently doesn’t mean it was done right.
ECU failure on these are quite rare unless there is an external reason like water ingress or connecting jump leads round the wrong way.
i will redo actuator test on injectors and listen for click tomorrow, but if no click how will this relate to the faulty actuation of coil or how i progress with fault finding sequence ??
Last edited by myglaren on 16 Nov 2020, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote tags

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

Personally I would test the injectors circuit with a noid light or meter, the auction test is not really any good for testing this kind of fault as it bypasses the input signals to the ECU.
If you get a pulse at the injectors this tells you that the ECU is powered up & that it is seeing the signal from the crank sensor. Both of these things are also required to create the spark at the coil.

VINCENTFISHING
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Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

ahh , so dble whammy , if no signal being seen by ecu from crank sensor (which has 2.5v ac at ecu plug on cranking) which i believe is good(its new as well) no coil signal and no power to injectors(so more likely ecu or something directly affecting it).?

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

Exactly, its the crank sensor that tells the ECU when to spark & when to inject fuel.
I personally dont find checking the AC voltage at an inductive sensor is a reliable enough way to test it, can you see the RPM reading on live data?

VINCENTFISHING
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Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Pretty sure i did see cranking rpm on live data which i will double check again if what i tell you now doesnt supersede that !!

checked actuation again the only clicking i heard was very faintly on injector 2 actuation , i heard nothing on 1,3and 4, i rechecked this several times as i thought it could be too faint too hear ,but it was always 2 that clicked very faintly,
i was suprised on one set of test acuations as it sounded like water running on 1,3 and 4 ! retested 2 again got faint clicking then tried other 3 injs again to see if got running water sound but couldnt get it to happen again ???

Did the hertz test by back probing 4wire connector on coilpack 2,3 +4(1 was 12v feed)
with commn on earth and red on 4
ign on got reading of 42.7 which then zeroed
when cranked 41.47
with red on 2 ign on got some low readings, turned on and off and got higher readings where changing a lot so maybe bad connection
cranking got varied readings but settled at 50.32...
was not too sure was doing this hertz thing right so checked voltage on both signal wires
on 4 got 0.008v ign on, cranking fluctuated between 1,2 and 3volts
on 2 got 0.007v ign on ,cranking same as above,1,2,3v

dont know if any of this means anything to anybody , all a bit confusing to me !







=

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 24
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Went out to crank engine to check rpm on live data and battery dead,
cranked fine earlier when checking hertz at coilpack ,before that i checked battery and had 12.56v.(.fully charged a day or so ago green light in bullseye indicator)
so did all the dodgy actuator tests kill battery , or did the dead battery affect actuator test !!
battery on charge now, maybe redo actuator test again tomorrow ?
nothing is ever easy, doh.

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

Yes those reading are a bit of a mess. This is where the noid light makes things so much easier . It does look as if you are getting some sort of signal.
The signal wire on both the coil & injectors are a pulsed earth, the coil & injectors should have a 12v feed at one side when the ignition is on (some cars the feed only starts when the engine is cranked). The ecu then rapidly pulses an earth to operate them.

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 24
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Have ordered a set of noid lights to add to the list of tools that get lost in the depths of my shed,,,
will still have another go at listening to injector actuation tomorrow, with a fully charged battery if its not raining .

VINCENTFISHING
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Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Forgot to say checked 2 sensors and got 5.6 volts on both , is that normal was expecting 5v??

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

5.6v Is close enough.
Dont worry too much about the auctuator test on the injectors, as i said it only tests the output & bypasses the input to the ECU.