TU3 liner movement...

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ekjdm14
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TU3 liner movement...

Post by ekjdm14 »

As per the title really, I'm going to delve into the BoL shortly but on the 206SW we just bought with a cooked engine (got so hot the head gasket is literally burned across the water jacket area & has melted fire rings on 1, 3 & 4) on inspecting it to see whether or not it'd be viable to reassemble with a skimmed replacement head I noticed something I've never seen from a TU based block before & that is one of the liners has visible play fore/aft when pushed. Only about 20 thou. but I noticed it when cleaning the top to get a straight edge.

Now, what I'm wondering is why that could be. Are they press-fitted or cast in place or are they like a bigger commercial/industrial engine (I.E wet liner that could be pulled individually and resealed).

I think I know the answer already (it's probably either cracked or softened & worked the alloy block and is junk) but clutching at straws that there may be some worth in reassembling the thing because it's only done 69k and mechanically looks great, no wear and oilways scream regular servicing too.

If the thing is wasted, I may just get a cheap HG and throw it together in order to test drive the car and see if it warrants an engine swap. Too bad we sold the engine/box from the old Verve that would've been a no-brainer right now!

ekjdm14
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Answered my own question with the BoL lol alloy TU blocks DO indeed have wet liners. That's nice to know. Not sure about one having movement in this engine though, although I know for a fact (done it myself) that it's been spun over with no head on so that could be the reason one popped loose.

Will check protrusion as-per & if all seems well I might as well chance throwing a seal on that liner and assembling the engine. worst that can happen is I've wasted £30 on a gasket, and given the price of the car that's a risk worth taking IMO (subject to finding no catastrophic damage on cleaning/inspection of course).
you learn something every day, I never even thought the little TU had potential for "in frame" rebuilds!

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CitroJim
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by CitroJim »

Gosh Dan :shock: That is a well cooked TU! I'd be very concerned that head and block may be annealed (softened) because of the heat, thus rendering it useless...

I had this happen on a superficially decent looking XUD9 head that I'd acquired... Despite being a bit banana-shaped it looked like it would true up OK but when I took it to the skimmers they pointed out the annealing issue and suggested it was scrap.

An easy way to tell is if the old gasket fire rings have sunk deeply into the head surface... In any case the head will need a truing skim and it'll be a good idea to have it crack tested too...

You're right on the liners... New seals are needed on their bottoms and protrusion is critical...

I'm wondering, given the overheating, if a light skim of the block face might be a good idea... Just to give the head a nice flat surface to sit on and give the engine a good chance of living again...

Let us know how it goes, I'm following with interest :)

ekjdm14
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ah you could very well be right there Jim, now I think of it there did seem to be a nail-catching lip around #1 on the head so it is likely pretty useless.

Again though, in the "back from the grave" ethos, I may attempt an experimental resurrection of the engine for short term testing to verify the health of the rest of the car (might try and make it hold together long enough to acquire an MoT even) but it's very likely that both head and block are scrap due to the annealing issue you mention. I'll try and get a photo of the gasket remains later on, it literally looks like the part across the water jacket has burned (it's crispy and disintegrating just like it's been on fire). Not sure if it's real or just my imagination but the centre of a couple of the (very clean) piston crowns appear to have a hint of blueing to them too

Even if there was not the metallurgy problem, in my heart of hearts and having smelled the oil I wasn't honestly holding out much hope for the bottom end to exactly be in rude health either, but for what it owes us I guess it's worth that longest of long shots and see what it does. Heck I might even glue some sandpaper to a plate of glass and scrub the head in a figure-8 on that to flatten the beggar haha.

By the way, nice to see you around on here. I've popped my head round the metaphorical door a couple of times this year when I've had time and you were rather conspicuous by your absence. Hope life's not treating you too roughly what with the strange year we're having!

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CitroJim
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by CitroJim »

ekjdm14 wrote:
03 Oct 2020, 14:16
Again though, in the "back from the grave" ethos, I may attempt an experimental resurrection of the engine for short term testing to verify the health of the rest of the car
Excellent! That's the spirit Dan :D I remember your epic XUD resurrection a few years ago :) Great fun!

I'm sure with a head skim and there's a good chance it will indeed hold together long enough.. Err on the side of maximum liner protrusion to give the gasket every chance of sealing well ;)

I look forward to following this new 'back from the grave' adventure ;)
ekjdm14 wrote:
03 Oct 2020, 14:16
By the way, nice to see you around on here. I've popped my head round the metaphorical door a couple of times this year when I've had time and you were rather conspicuous by your absence. Hope life's not treating you too roughly what with the strange year we're having!
Thanks Dan :D Life is rather excellent these days :D I'm really am back on top form now and my health has improved by an order of magnitude and I even have a little project car again... It's all in my blog ;)

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Can't help thinking that unless you're doing an engine rebuild for the fun of it that it'd make a whole lot more sense to chuck a second-hand lump in there.

I paid £60 when I had a Head Skimmed earlier this year and I'd expect to pay £50 for a Lump at a scrappies, so a secondhand lump is a whole let less trouble and also will probably not require a Gasket Kit.

You might also find a complete Donor for about that sort of money, I did.

Don't be blinded by the low mileage, a good high mileage engine is worth much more than a bad low mileage one.

Good to see you posting again Jim, more power to your keyboard fingers

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CitroJim
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by CitroJim »

Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 17:30
Good to see you posting again Jim, more power to your keyboard fingers
Thanks Puxa :D It's good to be back ;) I was gone too long but like Hotel California you can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

And here am I back with a little TU engined project car too :)

Do scrappies still supply complete engines these days? I'm so out of touch, having been in the automotive wilderness for so many years :(

All our local scrappies nowadays seem to be just metal recycling centres with a fondness for the crusher as soon as they come through the gate and they've been 'depolluted'...

I'd fully expect a blank look from them if I fronted up and asked for an engine complete...

Gibbo2286
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by Gibbo2286 »

There are still some breakers who are happy to sell parts Jim, I'm with Pug_XUD on this one, a cooked wet liner engine is rarely a successful rebuild chuck it away and find a good second hand one.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Wokingham Car Spares definitely allow you to get parts from cars, and they also remove decent engines and sell them on.

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Michel
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Re: TU3 liner movement...

Post by Michel »

As James says, there’s plenty of places that will allow you to strip your own parts off. I also use A1 in Wokingham.