turbo conversion advice

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bad driver
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turbo conversion advice

Post by bad driver »

Hi everyone, I am currently changing my n/a diesel 306 to be a Turbo diesel. I was on the understanding that the wiring looms are the same for both cars so the engine conversion would be a straight swap with radiator and downpipe. However I have come a bit unstuck and really need some advice. The loom on the new engine has 2 plugs on it that I dont have anywhere to plug. One plug I have managed to disregard as the donor car had electronic speedo and tacho, I simply swapped parts over to manual so thats ok. The other however has baffled me somewhat. The only extra piece of wiring I can actually find on the engine is the lucas fuel pump has a black connecter. After trawling the net and the haynes I have come to the conclusion that this is for the advance correcter relay. Does anyone know where this relay is? There is a relay attached the the new engines loom and I am hoping that is it, if it isnt then how do I overcome this, if it is what is the extra plug for on the loom?
Does anyone know also what the advance correcter relay is for? IE what will happen if I do not connect this part up on the fuel pump? will it still work or will I have problems.
Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns »

If its a four pin connector then its got an immobiliser fitted to the pump.
Dave
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Post by bad driver »

Yes it is a 4 pin connector, its a black one. I have found a thread on here that describes how to disable it if its sat in the disabled setting on the solenoid. Thing is though it says pass a 12v current but doesnt say across which wires. Any ideas? also does this pump require a current to work or once the immobiliser is disbled in it will it run without electricity?
Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns »

Its very unlikely to be in any disabled state, this would require the code to have been keyed in and the keypad unplugged before the engine was removed, you can't easily get round it, after all it is there to stop hot wiring and theft of the vehicle, I've seen it mentioned that certain clever dicks can interrogate the EPROM using a laptop to ascertain the start code (wether its true or not I don't know), but since you don't have a keypad equiped car there isn't much point going down that road.
You would need to find out which pins require what voltage and you might just be lucky, and you'd have to be lucky, very very lucky.
Personaly I would remove the immobiliser from the pump completely, but this is not really an option with the pump still fitted to the engine, reason being that it is (including the stop solenoid) protected under a hardened steel cover that is held in place by shear head bolts, so there is no proper bolt head to get a spanner on as they snap off when they are tightened down.
The good news though is that they can be (IIRC) removed using a good pair of mole grips or vice grips (whereas on the Bosch pump they are further protected and require punching around or drilling out).
You will still have to connect the stop solenoid in the usual manner with the vehicles existing ignition wire, so yes it needs electricity to run if you want the engine to stop when the ignition is turned off.
Dave
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Post by bad driver »

Any idea which wires will require current? If its not disabled I will just leave it in and connect it up to where ever it is required.
Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns »

I don't want to dampen your spirit but I really don't think you're in with a shout at getting this engine running unless you physicaly remove the immobiliser, I know I could'nt get it going without taking it off.
You see normally this engine immobiliser is in a car that has a keypad (or a transponder ignition key but thats another story), when the correct code is typed in on the keypad, the electronics on the pump swith the fuel cut off solenoid on and away you go, so no code or the incorrect code and you are stuck, which is the whole idea of it in the first place, to prevent the car being taken by an unauthorised person, also known as a thief.
Because it relies on the keypad input and not just the various voltages that may also be required on the four pins, you can't just poke current up it and get going, if you could do that so could the tea leaf, and its because of him that the thing is there, so its been made to work, and it does.
Dave
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Post by bad driver »

I think I will have to remove the immobilser from it then, the security aspect isnt an issue as the car has a really good toad immobilser anyway so without being disabled the rest of the car has no electrics. If I remove this immobiliser part from the fuel pump will it muck the pump timing up at all? I dont want to remove the pump to find the timing goes all wrong as I think that may then be beyond my skills.
How do I recognise the pump immobiliser? I take it that it will be with the fuel pumps stop solenoid. what would happen if the stop solenoid wasnt conne cted either? will that not work at all?
bad driver
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Post by bad driver »

OK, I understand that the immobiliser is inside the casing and looks like a little black box, is it connected to the stop solenoid? will I need a different stop solenoid and if I do can I use the one out of my old non turbop fuel pump??
bad driver
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Post by bad driver »

Me again, I have removed the pump and I have took some pictures of it. Can you have a quick look and tell me which part it is that I must remove to access the immobilser part. Dont fancy butchering a pump if it doesnt need it.
Here are the links to the pictures, please reply as to where on which picture, thanks
rear view
http://forum.stolenvehicles.org.uk/backview.jpg
front view
http://forum.stolenvehicles.org.uk/lookatview.jpg
end view
http://forum.stolenvehicles.org.uk/endview.jpg
top view
http://forum.stolenvehicles.org.uk/topview.jpg
many thanks for your help by the way, you are probably saving ma a fortune in a new pump and fitting.
bad driver
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Post by bad driver »

And again .... I have managed to remove the immobilser unit and replaced the stop solenoid with one of my old pump so It will connect directly to the loom, The problem I have now is there was an extra wire running from the immobilser unit, into something on the front of the pump and then onto the fast idle lever, I have put a link to a picture again and numbersed the parts 123, 3 is the fast idle lever and looks as though its just a ground trigger, 2 is just where the wire came from, iots only a single wire, 2 is the mystery part!!
I dont know if this wire needs to be live or not and what is the contraption in the front of the pump? It6 doesnt exist according to my manual and cant see what purpose it holds. I could remove the device and replace it with a big plug nut of the old pump but dont want to incaes it will muck up the pump timing which so far I have managed to retain.
http://forum.stolenvehicles.org.uk/wire.jpg
bad driver
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Post by bad driver »

OK, this topic can now be closed, found out the wire is for the cold start thingymebob. Spoke to a 306td specialist and he has told me exactly whats need.
Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns »

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, it was my intention to post some photo's today of a pump that I've got here with the immobiliser uncovered, but you've beat me to it[:D]
Glad to see you have got it sorted but just a cautionary word about the toad thingy, anyone with a bit of brains will be able to start your new engine from under the bonnet if the stop solenoid is visible or any cable going to it can be identified, regardless of wether the rest of the car electrics works or not, so I would suggest screwing the security cover back over it and hiding the wire that goes to it.
Dave
bad driver
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Post by bad driver »

true, anyone with brains could possibly steal the car, they will have a job though. Its got the toad ai606 immobiliser, rolling code shock alarm, remote deadlock doors and no locks at all, no buton on boot and security film on every window, on top of the fact its never out overnight and its behind 8 foot walls covered in razor wire!!
I cant replace the cover over the stop solenoid. I had to take a grinder to parts of it as the shearhead bolts were sunk behind a welded panel on some bits!!
not to worry. They wont get it!!
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