206 wiring diagram help please?

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ekjdm14
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206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

OK so long story short, there's a problem with the wiring on our '03 black 206. The 1.1S to 1.9XUD9TE conversion project so it's highly likely related to the work I've done to the loom ALTHOUGH I don't believe the issue arose for a while after the wiring mods. (I had wipers and no ABS lamp warning until a couple of days ago, then when I turned the ignition on one day the wipers did a single sweep and the issue was present)

Basically I've got no-: Wipers/washers/horn/headlamp telltale/tachometer, ABS lamp is on and a few other bits which I believe to all be related to the same VAN line (wires 9012/9013 and the A/B/C spurs of thus). Sadly the BoL is chocolate teapot material when it comes to anything deeper into the wiring like this, no real wiring diagrams just "typical" circuits and nothing specific. It was good enough that I've pretty well isolated it to an issue with the aforementioned VAN line but now I need some actual wiring diagrams and pinouts for the BSI, ECU and BSM so I can find the problem.

I did notice a pinched area of 9013 where it comes out of the BSM and repaired that, thought I'd nailed it as the wipers did another single sweep when I went ign. on but alas it's still not right. Guessing it's a break between the BSM and BSI since the only other variable between repairing that wire and thinking it was sorted was I'd had the BSI out again to backprobe some terminals.

Car is a late 2003 1.1S 3 door VIN VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] just looking for section of diagram to trace out exactly where 9012 and 9013 go, what connectors they go through etc between the BSM and BSI.

Thanks for any help

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

Nobody know of a good source of wiring diagrams?

To be honest I'm wondering now if it might simply be a coincidental failure of the COM2000 seeing as the fault occurred after I'd already done the wiring loom stripping & is still present with the ECU disconnected. Most of the issues seem to tie in with the BSI losing comms with this, the ABS I'm not sure but could a COM2000 cause it?

The reasoning here is that I knew the indicator stalk was floppy but it all worked previously, so perhaps (hopefully!) it just happened to fail on me... Still have indicators and main beam flash on the stalks but nothing else. Time will tell I suppose, got a spare to fit so will try that as well as wire tracing under the column seeing as I've had the pedal box out.

ekjdm14
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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

OK VAN line continuity is good all the way from BSM to COM2000 so it's probably more like a failure there or the BSI getting confused. Just to clarify, if swapping the COM2000 unit do I need one of the same manufacturer/part number? Have tried a known good unit this afternoon but same symptoms, but the original is of DAV manufacture and the others I have are Valeo and different part numbers.

(Further to this, if I were to swap to another part number/brand could I tell the BSI of the changes and have it work then?)

Really should get Diagbox fired up and see what it reckons now that the wiring is pretty much done.

wheeler
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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by wheeler »

Have you checked the VAN lines are not shorted to each other? They would still show good continuity if this was the case.
You will need to Disconnect everything on the Body VAN 1 network to do this.
The Body VAN 1 is BSI, Com2000, BSM & Airbag ECU.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ah that's a possibility, although unlikely IMO since I didn't have an airbag light that i noticed. To update on this, I've noticed that the radio shares a fuse with the COM2000 unit & thinking back, the trouble began when I removed the aftermarket head unit so before much more head scratching I'll check the fuses again & have a close look at where they wired in the stereo. I'm hopeful, because it seems a coincidence too far to have a VAN line damaged or COM2000 failure just after removing the stereo!

Will report back in a moment after I have a shufty! Thanks, will check shorts if all else fails but it's 99% going to be related to my work I think.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

OK negative on the blown fuse theory, still seems strange now I think about it though, that these faults manifested after pulling out the head unit.

Will break out diagbox later and see what that has to say regarding ability to communicate with stuff, might hopefully give some further direction & obviously check shorts.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Just a thought. If you put in a correct (for the car) head unit (and properly "introduce" it) and then go through a BSi reset I wonder if that could help resolve the issues?

ekjdm14
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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes that's also something I'm thinking, BSI reset might help as it's likely got very confused (especially seeing oil pressure and crank signal whilst it's also seeing open injector and coil circuits, poor thing must wonder what in the world's happening. Oh, and the driver's door is not electrically connected yet either so will have to replace the loom in that to enable a proper BSI restart)

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

Did you get get the XUD9TE parts you wanted ekjdm? Got a vague recollection that you wanted a manifold a while back.... I've just found myself a scrap XUDT (unsure whether that'd be a TE or not) and if I can get to sorting myself some 'Desirable' bits, it'd likely be practical to get you some as well. Can't promise anything coz am unsure when that's gonna happen but will put it on the list if you want owt.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ooh, does it have a K14 turbo on it by any chance? Not bothered if it's any good, just as long as the turbine shaft is straight and the turbine isn't exploded! Blew the turbo out of the exhaust pipe last night and just hoping to bodge the thing back together and turn the boost down a bit while we sort out either a TD04 or GT20xx and associated fittings.

Managed to find the manifold courtesy of Evilally & had the car on the road about a week now, until this happened. The K14 was meant to be temporary but not this short term!

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

wouldn't have a scooby, its a '95 405 TD. Did they all have a partic type of Turbo? Can't imagine there being much wrong with it at a mere 160k. Did have a cursory look see if it had HG Failure, defo not.

I fancy a spare Coolant Union so I'm gonna be in that part of the engine bay assuming I get there, but Head Gasket is the 'priority' job at the mo, so can't promise.

....should've taken your advice but knew it'd double the cost of my engine swap, so I didn't*

Happy to pm you the location of the car (I actually know of two 405 TD's) on the condition you keep it to yourself, coz other than the Coolant Union and a GP Relay, both for the spares box, there's not much I need. Owners may be amenable to sorting it for you rather than you take a chance on me getting there. Cor, just call me Abba !

*it was fine for about a month, maybe 500 ish miles; but been pressurising since it blew its Head to Matrix Hose and left itself in the centre of a puddle of its own coolant.... my fault, I should've realised me 'new' Hose was crap. Running OK with both the Caps off and not losing water but want it 100% before a long trip to the North East soon.

Talking of which.... weird habit it had on cold start up, til it blew its HG. Sounded like a tractor for first 10 seconds. Everything else tickety boo, no smoke, instant start up, just tractor-ish. Any of yours do that?

Also, have I any way of telling whether the Head's been previously skimmed, when I take it off. It was driving so well I wonderered if compression was higher than it should've been, hence the Agricultural-ness on Start Up??? Revved readily all the way to 4000rpm and sat happily at 80mph... and 'Bonus!' just a shade over 2500rpm at 70mph.... that's to do with the Gearbox tho.

Its getting the car's original Head which has been skimmed by 10 thou; with a 5 Notch Gasket; so I shall be curious to see whether it'll drive as well afterwards.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

OK Abba, if you could let me know how to get in touch with the owners that might be quicker. Still not 100% sure if we're resurrecting the turbo or just going ahead with a swap but it'd be useful to have a working K14 in reserve so to speak, as we're running the car pretty hard at times, I believe most TD 405's used the K14 so likely would be useful.

sorry to hear you're still having HG issues, it's a bit of a running theme now isn't it :( Just out of interest, have you ever run with the matrix bypassed at all? From a thread on the 306 forums I learned that the matrix and it's flow properties is important to the overall function of the cooling system & that if you were to run with the hoses joined together then it'd create a situation where most of the coolant simply flowed through that path instead of the radiator, causing overheating issues with potentially no warning from the gauge until too late. Not sure if there's any way to tell if/how much a head has ever been skimmed by, apart from measurement in the machine shop (I think, height from cam cover gasket face to head gasket face, or cam cap to HG face may even have a minimum spec although not sure).

The gasket itself shouldn't change if the head's skimmed, so (pending max piston protrusion) it should be replaced with the same as what comes off the bottom end.

On the tractor-sounding thing, not entirely sure how you mean but if it's extra-diesely/knocking sounding then it could be pump timing. Does it have the electric cold-advance solenoid on the front of the pump? If so, possible someone has the timing a little on the advanced side (would tally with great starting and no smoke too) and when the solenoid is energised it's just advancing it that little bit more to where it's doing a Massey Ferguson on you... All theory/guessing but can't think of much else without hearing it.

Anyway best put the computer down now, been another busy one and we should be asleep already lol (too hot for that though :( )

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

lol, yeah, innit a theme indeed. Feeling a bit sick of it, but what's a guy to do, buy summat modern that'll cost me money I don't have, that I don't understand, has got all sorts of electronic complexities, that I haven't got a huge stash of parts for and that's probably going to be just a bit 'Dull'. Nah, lets hope its sorted soon though!

Glad of the comment about bypassing the Matrix, it 'explains' things; in that both the HG Failures, on the old and new engine occurred following failure of the Head to Matrix Hose (carrying the water TO the Matrix, rather than from). I knew, with more than 99% certainty that I'd not boiled it, yet the HG had failed...

Will keep a Screenshot of that one for future ref.

On the plus side, the new lump has shown me that the condition of the old lump wasn't as good as I thought it was, average MPG has surpassed the 50mpg it never quite reached with the old lump; and the Self-Bleeding system works beautifully - I have the peace of mind that its not possible to bleed it improperly.

...oh, that and of course costs are, as usual, a pittance. Engine works etc came out at £170 and HG job with Elring HG & Bolts 'll be £100.

I also 'needed the practice' as the future holds some welding which will almost certainly be 'engine out' stuff.

Figured unlikely I'll ever know if the head's been previously skimmed. Its getting its original Head back on the new short lump.

Pump timing sounds likely too. I never bothered to adjust it. It does have the cold-advance solenoid but I' had three of em and they're all dud (tested in boiling water - not a dicky bird!), and I'm not spending £20+ on a new 'un. ...saying that, mind, if I'm mistaken and it IS working that make your suggestion seem all the more 'right'

Having read this, check your pm box

NB: Have you seen the youtube vid of the 1952 Cummins Turbo Diesel Indy 500 car... qualified in Pole ! Probably one of the last companies you'd expect to produce a competitive diesel.

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Re: 206 wiring diagram help please?

Post by ekjdm14 »

ugh, brain's not working so will have a proper read tomorrow hopefully, but just came here to scream. So... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

GTi180 is/was currently our only driveable car, (Xantia is on loan to the inlaws & turbo blown in black 206) so what better time to have the gearbox or diff failing, out of the blue, in the space of 30 miles gone from perfect to grinding so loud we're worried it's going to spit a cog through the case. Plus side, should have a nice GT2052V turbo in the next couple of days so black 206 hopefully not too long to fix but still, AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHH!