No Start After Battery Change

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GF1969
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No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

Hi all. I'm new here hoping somebody can help me out. We did a battery change on our 3008 2012 diesel with auto gear change (manual box) without following the correct procedure
It wouldn't start, came up with engine fault, handbrake wouldnt go on and it says it's stuck in m-
It took me a while to get some advice. First I thought bsi and was all prepared to get it checked. Then I was told it's not likely to be bsi, try reconfiguring the keys. This started off with me sourcing software etc and a new laptop then nearly 3 months had passed! Then I couldn't find the logbook to be able to get a PIN from the dealer so applied for it just as the covid-19 hit. 5 weeks later the logbook isnt here !
In the meantime I was advised to not reconfigure the keys and check everything is showing on the bsi. I can find no faults but there is a communication error to the gearbox, the park brake and power steering (I have photo from diagbox). I've been advised again to reconfigure the keys or even change the fusebox.
This tech is new to me having trained on 60s and 70s stuff and not been in the trade for many years. The car has done only 32k miles from new and has now been sitting nearly six months!
Sorry for the long first post but can anyone help me please? I cant afford dealer prices and the local dealer is closed anyway!
Many thanks in advance
Last edited by GF1969 on 19 Apr 2020, 12:46, edited 1 time in total.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi and welcome.

Make sure this is followed every time you disconnect and reconnect the battery: There is a section there to cover keyless entry and Stop Start vehicles, at the relevant parts.

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

There is commonly a misunderstanding between programming vehicle keys (usually only done once at factory, or when adding a new fob) and resynchronising the keys.

Sometimes with a remote key fob, the rolling codes transmitted can exceed the offset limit - this can happen when trying to unlock from a longer distance than normal. When this happens, they need re-synchronising. The procedure for this requires no diagnostic kit and just involves putting the key in the ignition, turning ignition on and pressing a lock button withing 10 seconds, releasing & turning off the ignition, remove the key and wait a few seconds, then reinsert and try starting it. If the car just turns over and won't start, you may see am immobiliser fault - which generally means the key fob needs resynchronising as described.

Re-programming the key fobs does need the diagnostic tool and your customer confidential code. But you must ensure you do ALL the keys together in one session, as any not included will be locked out and unusable.

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

Thanks for the reply.
We did try the bsi reset time and time again.
The engine doesn't turn over at all. Because there's no communication with the gearbox it wont recognise it's in neutral.
I did find one of the maxi fuses (20a) under the fusebox had blown and hoped it was that. Changed it and no difference.
I have a pic on my phone of what's coming up in diagbox but I need to make it smaller to post on here.

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

20200418_182042.jpg
This is what I get. Apologies for the quality.

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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No need, use the full post editor and upload it as an attachment. If it needs sorting I can do it for you. Pop the VIN up here too (it is automatically masked on submission so only staff can see it). That will let me know exactly what you have.

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

I was getting these faults too
20200418_182508.jpg
I'm handy around cars, can sort out most mechanical issues and can weld but this is new stuff to me which I will get my head around eventually I hope!

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

What I'd like to be able to do eventually is help other owners nearby if they have issues but no point until I can understand it myself!

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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

Thanks for your help Marc.
Will go out and get VIN shortly.

Gary

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Could you read those same ECUs before the problem? The reason I ask is that if the Lexia kit you have isn't a full chip kit, they often can't converse with all the ECUs, ABS being one of them and others. It's important to know that first. If it was previously reading them and it isn't now, then you may have other electrical issues going on - especially if there was the possibility of frying any of the ECUs when you changed the battery.

Annoyingly as it can't communicate, you aren't going to get any fault codes returned. So if the diagnostic kit is up to spec., then I'll have a look at the other fuses to see, once I have your VIN.

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

VIN is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

Sadly I didnt have the kit before! I bought it to solve the issue.
This what I bought.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULL-CHIP-RE ... 2749.l2649

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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so it looks like a vehicle network problem or an ECU - but read through first, then look at my comments at the end. If the ECUs are showing as no communication, it could as easily mean that there is a power problem. looking at the systems affected from your photo, I am suspecting the supplies management. Here are the fault codes - but these may not be directly related if these were historical.

P0500: Intersystems CAN: Speed information incorrect or absent.

This means that the Information is wither not received or is received but invalid by the engine management ECU on the CAN network.

Whilst this fault is active, the following downgrade modes are in effect:
Irreversible deactivation of:
  • the vehicle speed curbing function
  • the vehicle speed limiter
  • the vehicle speed limiter
  • Sending of the information "torque uncertain" on the CAN network
The management information light will be lit. The symptoms of this fault noticed when driving are jerking / stalling and a lack of power. suspect areas are the Engine ECU or the intersystem CAN network.

As for the U1218 code - this can be slightly different depending on the system it is flagged up on.

As it relates to the Engine ECU as per yout picture:
Fault in the information sent by the BSI ECU: Value received incorrect.

In this case it means that the the ambient temperature information on the CAN network is wrong. The time of appearance of the fault code is 10s.

This fault should only appear if the supply voltage is correct between 8V and 16V (Pin 3 of the 28-way connector), and in the absence of fault codes U1000 - U1003 - U1118.

This fault will go after 20 consecutive pieces of valid information are received and no faults for 20 seconds. Whilst this fault is active the default ambient temperature used will be 20 °C.

Symptoms are difficult/impossible to change a gear and/ or lack of power.

Suspect Areas: 28-way harness of the piloted manual gearbox ECU or the Built-in systems interface.

So these are the faults as per the picture.

So the first thing I would do considering the battery has been changed is retrace your steps and make sure that ALL the connectors are secure and that nothing is loose or has been moved in the process. You'd be surprised at how often this happens.

But if there is a speed issue on the network, then this may likely prevent the piloted gearbox from authorising a start if it doesn't know what's going on. As you are showing no communications with the ABS / ESP system, that too can be an issue. Any issue with this system, and it will affect the cruise control, the parking brake and of course the piloted gearbox too.

So the common denominator is the ABS / ESP system I would suggest, or a data network problem on the CAN network that is preventing any or the coherent info from getting to and from the various ECUs.

Ok, so now onto the fuses.

There is a fuse box called BPGA which is for the supplies protection. Now most of the components you have an issue with are supplied by this box.

Here is its location:
3008 BPGA A.PNG
In this unit (and I am not referring to the Engine Fuse Box here) shown in the picture above:
The Power Steering Pump is supplied by fuse F7.
The ABS / ESP ECU has 3 fuses , those being F4, F5 and F10.
The Piloted Manual Gearbox is supplied by F6

So this is where I would start. Check and test all these fuses first, but don't just do a visual check. This unit also incorporates an ECU, so we have to look at the possibility of that being affected by whatever happened when the battery issue happened.

Anyway, a few pointer for you to start with.

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

Wow! That's very comprehensive! I'll have a crack at it tomorrow and report back. Very much appreciate your guidance.

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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

20200424_133642.jpg
20200424_133647.jpg
Just got a chance to get a start on this. Removed all fuses and checked with multimeter as suggested. Then cleaned up all surfaces to make sure, replaced and checked for continuity again before replacing.

Refitted battery as per your procedure.
Weirdly now the parkbrake appears to be on (it wouldn't stay on before!) but it wont release and the driver's window won't go up!

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GF1969
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Re: No Start After Battery Change

Post by GF1969 »

20200424_135600.jpg
Now I have these lights on the dash

I need to hook the laptop up to see what's happening and try to get the window up as it's parked on the street!!