2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

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Mares
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Joined: 02 Sep 2019, 17:54

2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

I have 2012. DS5 2.0hdi 160hp 6-speed automatic gearbox with 170.000km at odometer, and last saturday my car suffered serious engine damage while driving on a highway. While driving on cruise control at 145km/h, all of a sudden engine suffered power loss and started to work like on 2-3 cylinders. I stopped at the first gas stationwhihc was nearby and noticed oil leakage underneath the car. Had to call towing service to drive back home my car. Today I towed him to service and ecu diagnostic shows error on first cylinder. When engine is in idle, it is "blowing" on uberlauf (this is German word, do not know English wording) and technician said engine is probably damaged and it will need refurbishment, probably caused by failed injector.

We agreed to open entire engine and inspect what parts are damaged and what should be done for refurbishment.

I am quite devastated with this situation because I have this car for only 1,5 year and I generally like it a lot.

I am thinking to sell it after refurbishment because for me it won't be the same engine.

I am thinking to replace it with again DS5, but would like to know what are differences between 160hp and 180hp engine? I know stronger version is newer EUR6 engine, but do they share same major elements like injectors, turbo, etc...? I am now quite suspicious about 160hp version because I had issues with injectors since I bought this car. First issue was during winter 2018. I had problems with first "morning" ignition, injectors were tested and cleaned, but technician said this is temporary solution and they are generally not in a good condition. Last summer I took it to another service for inspection (due to issue with "start monitoring" error message) and injectors were again tested and re-calibrated, afterwards they got into "good condition", but again, technician said he can not guarantee how long they will operate well. Basically, I am a bit afraid to go again for the same engine version with 160hp, hence I am thinking to take newer version with EUR6 engine, but not sure if this would be smart decision.

I know that existing injectors in my DS5 are made by Delphi. Which one are in 180hp version?

If someone is familiar with these two type of engines and some basic comparison can be done, reliability, etc..would be thankful....

PS. I do not know what could cause such issues with injectors, I would mention that, after 1 month of owning this car I tuned him to about 195hp (ecu re-mapped) but this is "standard" re-mapping done by professional tuner who used same map on various DS5 cars (with no problems noticed), and all engine elements should bear such power increase. My rides are sometimes harsh with kick-downs included, but again, I am not driving it all the time like that....not sure if such re-mapping could cause this issue on injectors. I remember when tuning my car, person who was re-mapping it told me that injectors can not suffer damage due to power increase because only timings of fuel injecting is changed...

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by GiveMeABreak »

These are basically the same engine - just a variant of the DW10 series. All these below are Euro 6 - but in addition to the extra power, they have Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) systems fitted as well as DPFs.

DW10 FE / AH01: 120 PS (88 kW, 118 hp)
DW10 FD 100KW / AH01: 135 PS (99 kW, 133 hp)
DW10 FD / AH01: 150 PS (110 kW, 148 hp)
DW10 FC / AH01 AH02: 180 PS (132 kW, 178 hp)

I haven't heard of this exact issue on a DW10CTED4 engine to date, so maybe you were just unlucky.

Personally though, while we still have petrol and diesels, they have been trying to get more out of the engines with less weight, lighter components, hotter running engines to comply with emissions and all that - so frankly I suspect they may not have the same sort of reliability as the older diesels. - Time will tell.

Mares
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Joined: 02 Sep 2019, 17:54

Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

Even though I do not know anyone else in my closer surrounding driving a car with the same engine (talking about 160hp version), before I purchased it i read a lot over the internet and heard from different people that this engine is very reliable, hence I decided to go for it. Never heard anyone experienced such big damage on this way like I did....I guess, as you said, I was unlucky.

On the other hand, do you have an insight what injectors are used in 180hp version (are they also Delphi or maybe Siemens or Bosch)? Btw I find data on the web that 160hp version is a bit faster in 0-100m run than 180hp version. Is this true? How come, when 180hp has even more hp and torque? They should be using same 6EAT gearbox, right?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The DW10FC used in a 2017 DS5 has a Delphi Injection System.

DS5 (2012-2015) 6 Speed Auto
Power: 177 bhp
Top Speed: 137 mph
0-60 mph: 8.9 secs
Torque: 400 Nm, 295 ft-lb
CO2 Emissions: 118 g/km
Euro Emissions Standard: 6
Miles Per Tank: 818 miles

DS5 (2012-2015) 6 Speed Auto
Power: 157 bhp
Top Speed: 132 mph
0-60 mph: 9.5 secs
Torque: 340 Nm, 251 ft-lb
CO2 Emissions: 158 g/km
Euro Emissions Standard: 5
Miles Per Tank: 607 miles

I know which one I'd have with over 200 extra miles per tank of fuel...... I mean where can you realistically drive at 130 MPH? The Performance difference is hardly noticeable between these.

Mares
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

Thanks for feedback... I found one in local classifieds 2015. year 180hp at 60.000km (it is not facelifted version), looks like in good condition, might consider to check it.

Btw, in what models upgraded suspension was introduced? Only in facelifted models, or? Mine 2012. have front McPherson and rear independent with springs. Does 2015. model has the same rear suspension type or it has improved ie. upgraded type rear suspension?

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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The later facelifted versions do have different suspension, as the previous setup was pretty bad.

Mares
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

What about mechanical elements of engine and suspension (besides rear suspension), do non-FL and FL model share identical parts or there are differences, for instance for regular maintenance like filters, belts, etc...?

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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can't go into all that here - each engine has its own maintenance requirements and will be the same for engine related components wherever the engine is fitted regardless of vehicle.

The front dampers had no further mods since Nov. 2014 as one example whether Citroen or DS badged.

Both models share common parts except the styling and cosmetic changes from when DS took over.

Mares
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

Did you mean rear dampers instead of front dampers? Or front dampers were also upgraded?

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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I just looked at the fronts - no upgrades post 2014 on either the DS5 from DS Automobiles or DS5 from Citroen. I didn't check the rears.

Mares
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Re: 2.0HDI 160hp vs 180hp

Post by Mares »

To update this thread, engine and egr valve was replaced and car is operating again.

Old engine suffered leakage of cooling water into the first cylinder causing piston break (there were also red cooling water residues on top of the second cylinder, but piston was ok). What actually caused such leakage is still unfamiliar, probably egr valve because engine sealing was ok and motor head passed hydrotest.

Anyone had similar experience that egr failed and further damaged the engine? I have not had any warnings about egr valve before this.

Bad motor block could also be suspicious but isn't this type of motor "built to last"?