1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

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tom_ely
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1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Hi everyone,
I am new here and hope you guys can help me with my Citroen Picasso 1.6hdi (2011) problem.

The problem:
The car would not start. The engine stopped without any warning when waiting on the traffic lights. And I wasn't able to start it ever since.

What I have checked:
  • Fuel supply seems to be ok
  • All fuses are ok (interior fuses as well as the engine fuse box)
  • Starts with "Easy Start" spray
  • Reports a single error on Diagbox - FFFE . And this very error code reported in the different sections, namely:
    • Built-in System Interface
    • Battery charger status unit
    • Engine relay unit
    • Trailer relay unit
It seems like a generic fault without any meaningful description, and it is probably caused by a single failure that affects different components. But what could it be? How to even start troubleshooting it?

Possibly unrelated problem:
There is an additional issue that appeared during messing about with the car after it stopped working - the car stops turning over when starting; circuit just breaks. The battery is good and the cranking is normal, not slow. In the beginning, it happed seldom after a long cranking, but now it would not turn the engine more than a couple times (which would still start the car if it was in the working order). I suspect it might be a starter problem and I think it should not be related to the main problem.

I would really appreciate if someone could give me any ideas on how to approach this issue as I have no idea where to start from.

Thanks,
Tom
Last edited by tom_ely on 09 Feb 2020, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
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citroenguy
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by citroenguy »

Thr rail fuel pressure sensor or its wiring is common on these. What value is it on when cranking?
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Hi citroenguy,
Thank you for the suggestion. I will have a look at the rail pressure and it's sensor wiring tomorrow.
Tom
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Paul-R
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by Paul-R »

If you post up your VIN (it will be masked for everyone except staff) someone with access should be able to tell you exactly what the code means.
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Paul-R thanks,
Here is the VIN VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] . If anyone knows what the fault code FFFE means I would be grateful to hear.
Thanks,
Tom
tom_ely
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Joined: 08 Feb 2020, 11:21

Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

Update:
As citroenguy suggested, I checked the fuel rail pressure, and it showed 60 which is indeed too low. I will have a look at the sensor and it's wiring now.
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citroenguy
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by citroenguy »

I saw now that it is possibly the later DV6C, still could be the rail sensor.
Have you changed the fuel filter recently?
Sharkie
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by Sharkie »

Might be starter/DM flywheel issue.
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

The fuel filter has not been changed recently, however, as I am at it I will change the filter.
The rail pressure sensor and the wiring on visual inspection seem to be clean and in order. Not sure if I can test the sensor without swapping it with a new one.
Also, I took the starter out and ordered a new brushes kit, so hopefully, at least it will fix the cranking issue.
RichardW
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by RichardW »

Is the cam belt still intact (I think you can see the rockers on the cam by looking down the oil filler, so you can see if the cam is going round when it's being cranked).

If you look in live data, does it say that the cam and crank is synched when cranking? Can the ECU see it is turning over when cranking it (engine speed should register)? What is the fuel rail pressure before and during cranking?
Kennyd90
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by Kennyd90 »

Hi. I had the same problem and it was the camshaft position sensor on top of the cam cover next to the cam belt pulley on top of the engine. It'll probably be loose and needs gapping up to the camshaft sproket. A 5 min job at the most.
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

RichardW, I will check what ECU can see regarding cam/crank synchronization and rail pressure during cranking when I put the starter back into the car. However, because the engine was able to run using "Easy Start" spray I think that cam belt should be intact.
Kennyd90 thank you for the suggestion, I will have a look at it.
tom_ely
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by tom_ely »

After putting back the starter I checked the car again:
  • the cambelt is intact however Diagbox trace shows "no synchronization"
  • running actuator test on fuel pressure regulator relay when holding my hand on the relay I was able to feel clicks roughly one every second (not sure if it should vibrate or just produce those clicks)
  • the cranking still cuts off after about 3 seconds evry time
  • fuel pressure goes upto 600 and then cranking cuts off. If Ignition is not turned off completely, during the second crancing pressure goes upto 600 again and cranking cuts off, however, after that if ignition is not completely turned off, the pressure doesn't go up again, but the cranking cuts off in abaout 3 seconds anywa. In the trace attached you can see 7 crankings: fuel pressure goes up in the first two and then the pressure doesnt go up on the third one, after the third cranking the ignition was turnd off and turned on again and 4 more crankings were made - you can see the the first 2 pressure spikes and the 2 last cranking did not produce any pressure spikes
Attachments
Fuel_pressure.PNG
RichardW
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by RichardW »

tom_ely wrote:
26 Feb 2020, 16:48
After putting back the starter I checked the car again:
  • the cambelt is intact however Diagbox trace shows "no synchronization"
It will not start injection if there is no synch so this is where the problem lies. I suspect the stop in cranking is because the rail pressure has reached a high level but it can't see the cam and crank in sych so it has not started injection so it stops cranking to prevent a rail burst. So either the cam sensor is loose and not picking the cam up, or the sensor has had it, or it is telling the truth and the cam belt has jumped a tooth or two.

There's a mistake in your VIN so I can't find it. It could be either a 16V or an 8V version at that age. The sensors are different:

Part Number Description Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT
00001920QN SENSOR 38.73 GBP 46.48 GBP 46.48 GBP (16V)

00001920QZ SENSOR 29.69 GBP 35.63 GBP 35.63 GBP (8V)

Both available much cheaper on e-bay!

I don't think you can see the cam speed in Diagbox, just whether it is synched or not. I would check it's not loose, then consider having the belt covers off and checking the timing - not all that easy on the 16V at least as the top cover is wrapped around the engine mount so you need to take that off to get the cover off.

Unfortunately AFAIK it ignores the cam signal once the engine is started, and this therefore points to the timing actually being out of synch since it stopped without warning....
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6Hdi, car doesn't start, Fault FFFE

Post by GiveMeABreak »

16 Valve Richard (DV6DTED4) - VIN is working

Edit: Apologies, my error, it is an 8 Valve, DV6DTED C3 PICASSO FAMILY SALOON 1.6 HDi 92 Manual gearbox 5

The DB hadn't updated properly from another post I was dealing with.