2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

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winchman
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2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Glow plugs are fine new filter, once its been left 12 hours or so it just has to crank for ages before starting, once warm it's fine?
Any ideas?
I have plugged it in and only fault is EGR which has been faulty before I had this issue
I can read live data but haven't a clue what it means?
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Hell Razor5543
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

How fast does the starter motor turn over then engine? They do go off over time. A friend had an issue with his Picasso (and I had a similar issue with my C5 Mk1) where it would take time to start. We both replaced the starter motors, which spun much more quickly, and resolved the problems (the HDi engine has a minimum RPM required before the ECUs will send fuel into the injectors, so if the starter motor struggles to get to that speed the engine won't start).

Oh, :welc: to the Forum, by the way.
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Michel
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Michel »

That was me, also had the same issue with a Berlingo with the same engine. Change the starter motor for the higher powered one, it will solve the issue. Don't bother with mew battery, diags, other expense.. change the starter.
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Thanks I will have a look how big of a job to change the starter
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Hell Razor5543
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Not that difficult, although threading the motor in and out can be interesting. However, you may well need to make up a little 'adaptor' cable. It is not unusual for the old motor to have a threaded rod for the solenoid trigger wire, and the new motor to have a spade connector.

It could be worth looking at GSF for a reconditioned starter motor. I got a Bosch starter motor for around £120, and when I returned the old motor (in the same packaging the Bosch motor came in) I got about £60 back. This was, however, a few years ago, so I cannot say what the prices will be now.
winchman
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Can I read the rpm in live data? Can't really afford to get it wrong
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Michel
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Michel »

winchman wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 22:18
Thanks I will have a look how big of a job to change the starter
30 mins of a job, less if you're mechanically competent.
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Michel
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Michel »

Ebay item 302345100634 is what you need.

As James says, you'll need to make a little cable up as the small terminal is different.
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

I just need to be 100% certain as its a big spend for me, making the cable wont be a problem, it was sluggish again at 0600 this morning so I will get the battery tested and try it with a jump start and report back.
Thanks
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Made a start after a good run home I had the battery tested, its had it so bought a new one let see how it is tomorrow. Next stop strip the starter can't do any harm its been on a long time
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Progress or lack of it.
New battery which is cranking it over no problem, but its still very slow to start, it belches out a cloud of smoke too, once running its fine and starts easily?
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Michel
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Michel »

It's the starter motor. We did tell you.. this happens to so many of this engine...
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white exec
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by white exec »

Have we got to the stage with this where the original starter motor is just known to fail (to crank fast enough) to achieve a start? The problem crops up again and again.

Assuming that the sensing of the cranking r.p.m. cannot be over-written/modified (almost certain), it could be sensible for anyone worried about this issue to simply replace their starter motor now, before being let down with a non-starter. A list of engines/vehicles affected could be useful.

Maybe arguments against, but surely worth looking at. It the engine were mine, I'd be looking to do this as a very affordable preventative measure.
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Michel
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by Michel »

white exec wrote:
28 Jan 2020, 19:45
Have we got to the stage with this where the original starter motor is just known to fail (to crank fast enough) to achieve a start?
Yes. It usually manifests itself as the weather gets colder. There's so many threads and even a sticky about it (or was) over on the Berlingo forum , which uses the same engine.

It seems some markets got a higher power starter motor. The solution is to fit one of these like the one I linked to. I fell for the knackered battery line of thought back in 2012 with my Berlingo. The last two times I've had a 90bhp HDi that's done this I've not even bothered doing anything else other than change the starter.
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Re: 2.0HDI Picasso poor starting

Post by winchman »

Michel wrote:
28 Jan 2020, 19:30
It's the starter motor. We did tell you.. this happens to so many of this engine...
I know you did!
The Battery was second hand about 18 months ago so the logical thing was to test it which it failed.
Can I not measure the cranking speed in the live data?
Some one would have to tell me how?
I just need to be certain before I spend