[2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

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BadIdea
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[2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

Hi all, I'm new to the forum.

I bought a 407 SW from a dealer just a couple of days ago. It drove fine on the test drive, but driving it home and then further trips have proved problematic.

The most worrisome one for me was last night. I'd driven it for 15 mins, parked up and returned after an hour or so. At first, the dash showed the skidding icon and complained about ESP. I turned the key, and the starter motor kept turning over without the engine firing. The dash said something like 'Presence of water in the diesel fuel filter', as well as 'Speed Control System Faulty'. I tried turning it off and starting again a few times with the same effect, but eventually the engine fired up and I was able to drive home.

In addition to this, I have an error popping up relating to the fog lamp, and the first drive from the dealers back home saw the side mirrors opening and closing repeatedly before eventually folding in and staying in. I discovered the button on the door to unfold them and they stayed that way for the rest of the journey, luckily.

I'm now really concerned that I've bought a lemon. Mechanically, the car is great and drives really well. The MOT history is good and the condition in and out is great, such that it belies the 96k miles it's done. But, reading stories online I worry that I'm not going to be able to resolve these electrical issues.

Any thoughts?

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myglaren
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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by myglaren »

I would be returning that to the dealer to fix those faults. Their problem this soon after purchase and you shouldn't be worrying yourself about them.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

myglaren wrote:
07 Jan 2020, 15:20
I would be returning that to the dealer to fix those faults. Their problem this soon after purchase and you shouldn't be worrying yourself about them.
Thanks. I hope they'll be reasonable. It's a used car dealer, rather than a Peugeot dealership. I've just rang them and the first thing he said was that money was knocked off the purchase price, which is true, but that was for the power steering leak. I certainly wouldn't have purchased the car if it had thrown all these errors on my test drive or failed to start. They've said they will get someone from the service team to give me a call, so I guess we'll see what happens.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That sounds like a multiplexing / electrical issue - could be engine fuse box related - but hard to start pinpointing without a diagnostic check with Diagbox to be honest. Returning it would be my suggestion also as not fit for purpose - especially if you are having ESP / Starting and electrical glitches as this could be potentially expensive to troubleshoot and repair - and you need to have confidence in driving the vehicle.

The speed system fault will be related to the ESP or Engine ECU throwing a wobbly - if an ABS wheel sensor is faulty that will kick the ESP warning on and will disable cruise control and certain other functions like hill start assist if you have the electronic parking brake.

As you've mentioned the mirrors folding in and out of their own accord - that's what concerns me about the electrical issue - as if there is a multiplexing fault it could also cause the ESP fault having a knock on effect.

You should allow the dealer reasonable time and opportunity to rectify it - but after that, I would expect you would have the right to reject it if not fit for purpose. Fair enough if you bought it and had money off for a bit of damaged bodywork or similar, but if the vehicle is not functioning and becomes undrivable, then it is not fit for the purpose on which it was sold - regardless of what the dealer says.

Sort it sooner rather than later - don't wait and make sure you keep a record of communications - dates, times and names.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
07 Jan 2020, 18:00
That sounds like a multiplexing / electrical issue - could be engine fuse box related - but hard to start pinpointing without a diagnostic check with Diagbox to be honest. Returning it would be my suggestion also as not fit for purpose - especially if you are having ESP / Starting and electrical glitches as this could be potentially expensive to troubleshoot and repair - and you need to have confidence in driving the vehicle.

The speed system fault will be related to the ESP or Engine ECU throwing a wobbly - if an ABS wheel sensor is faulty that will kick the ESP warning on and will disable cruise control and certain other functions like hill start assist if you have the electronic parking brake.

As you've mentioned the mirrors folding in and out of their own accord - that's what concerns me about the electrical issue - as if there is a multiplexing fault it could also cause the ESP fault having a knock on effect.

You should allow the dealer reasonable time and opportunity to rectify it - but after that, I would expect you would have the right to reject it if not fit for purpose. Fair enough if you bought it and had money off for a bit of damaged bodywork or similar, but if the vehicle is not functioning and becomes undrivable, then it is not fit for the purpose on which it was sold - regardless of what the dealer says.

Sort it sooner rather than later - don't wait and make sure you keep a record of communications - dates, times and names.
Great advice, thank you. I've already created a document with what has happened so far, and will continue to add to it as things develop. Ideally, I'd love for them to fix it, as it's in great nick otherwise. But with the intermittent nature of the issues, I do worry that what might appear to be fixed initially could just crop up again a week later.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, let us know how you get on. Unfortunately I suspect some of the 'glitches' could be intermittent - which is the nature of this sort of fault, so in your defence you can only keep a note of when they happen and how often.

Ideally, it would be better if they agreed to get Peugeot to diagnose it (circa £90) for an hour and they would be able to see what faults are logged and the possible reason for these.

In the interim, though, you could try a BSI reset - as if previous owners / garage were not aware, if disconnecting the battery, not following the guidance here can result in electrical anomalies:

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

Well, it looks like I may have screwed myself by haggling the price based on the power steering. The dealer today pointed me toward a line he'd put on the invoice that said "vehicle sold with potential faults, discount applied for customer to find and repair faults".

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That may be their cop out clause in that case. I would contact your trading standards to check their interpretation of that and what (if any) rights you may have. You may not be able to get a refund but may be able to reject it and exchange it - but do get some help - or check your car or home insurance policy - as these may include some free legal advice.... Many people forget this.
Home insurance legal expenses insurance typically covers legal proceedings relating to your home, employment, death or personal injury.

It can also cover cases where you've entered into a contract for the sale and supply of goods and services.

These cover you for between £50,000 and £100,000.
so maybe worth a call if you have this cover on your policy :-D

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by doctle »

Not all car dealers understand French cars or any cars. If you can't get a refund don't panic just yet. A proper diagnostic scan with the correct software would help and there's members her that can scan your car.
What can seem like a disaster can sometimes be sorted out easily enough when you know what the problem is.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

Thanks guys.

What a nightmare! I feel like a mug, but then I wasn't informed of any changes in terms of sale when the price was negotiated. I got the invoice printout once the deal was done.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

doctle wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 16:27
Not all car dealers understand French cars or any cars. If you can't get a refund don't panic just yet. A proper diagnostic scan with the correct software would help and there's members her that can scan your car.
What can seem like a disaster can sometimes be sorted out easily enough when you know what the problem is.
That does make me feel a little more optimistic, cheers.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by BadIdea »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 16:20
I would contact your trading standards to check their interpretation of that and what (if any) rights you may have. You may not be able to get a refund but may be able to reject it and exchange it - but do get some help - or check your car or home insurance policy - as these may include some free legal advice.... Many people forget this.
I'll have a look into this, thanks.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by ekjdm14 »

As per Doctle, don't enter panic mode just yet. The dealer may well have an "out" and that's why one should always read the fine print before signing anything even though it is a royal PITA to spend time doing that with the dealer staring over your shoulder clearing their throat/sighing/looking at watch etc!

But as said, many of these things can be caused by a confused BSI after a battery change or even simply if the battery is weak. As an example, I went to start our spares 206 1.4HDi a couple of weeks back and the battery had got low, as a result the passenger window is now "upside down" on the buttons, the rear wiper sweeps when I unlock with the key and the mirrors stopped working. I'm confident a BSI reset will clear all those so there's hope yet. First thing I would do is to go to a local fastfit or similar that offers free battery checks and see what their machine says on the battery condition. Then once it's either changed or comes back with a clean bill of health the next step is the BSI reset procedure & if that fails to evict the gremlins then Diagbox/PP2000 session to see what the car thinks. As mentioned there's a map of members with the diagnostic kit so hopefully someone near you will be able to help rather than paying a PSA dealership. (Mine's not working at the moment, VCI has gone south! :( )

Best of luck with it, should be a fine car when in good health.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Regardless of any price haggling the trader has to supply a car the is 'Fit for purpose' and must not be 'Misrepresented' so get after them.

One of my local car business neighbours had a customer who bargained down the price by offering to take the car without any guarantee, even had it written on the sales invoice but came back complaining when the engine failed three months after the deal was done, trader told him he was on his own.

The small claims court judge described it as "Clearly a case of a motor trader attempting to circumvent the law and his legal obligations."

Trader had to pay for the repairs and the court fees, around five grand in all.

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Re: [2006] 407 SW 2.0 HDi Auto(6) Electrical Gremlins and Failure to Start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

But in this case, it's not a matter of not having a guarantee - I would still expect the car to function within the first 30 days or within the 6 months allowed for comeback - but in this case it was sold with faults and clearly said the customer agreed to repair them and this was reflected in the price. As it stands the car is not a non-runner as such at present, it still drives. That's why I think there may be some issue - but great if there isn't of course. But no harm is knowing your rights in this specific scenario beforehand and before confronting the dealer - always worth having the legal interpretation correct before going in guns blazing.