Xantia not starting

[andy5]

HDI SX 110 from 1999, VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

A couple of days ago, the fuel pump didn't run when I turned the key to the relevant position to preheat etc

Oh, I might need a new fuel pump, I thought, lucky I bought one a few months ago

Yesterday it was fine and started normally, just to move it on the drive

This morning, again no fuel pump running, and also the key logo flashing in the dashboard and a continuous buzzer tone, the same one that bleeps to remind the keys are in when you stop and open the door. Same with other key.

I phoned the main dealer service and asked whether the keys might have become decoded. She said something about the battery in the key. These have never been changed, as I have rarely used the remote locking, as the internal alarm sometimes went off spuriously, instead just turn the key in the door.

They can have the car in and do a diagnostic check, They can't send someone out, and they don't do recovery to their place. I can ring up breakdown service and see what they can determine, and maybe get them to take the car to the dealer.

From the sound of it so far, what do you folks think?

Can it be only key batteries needed, can it need keys recoded to car, or can there be a transponder in the dashboard that's failed, involving replacing that or even more expensive or perhaps impossible given the age, such as ECU, what sort of chance distribution between these options or anything else?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[wheeler]

First off the batteries in the remote are just for the remote locking, the transponder system doesn’t require a battery.
Do you have a spare key? Is it the same with that?
Its not uncommon for CPH equipped cars to loose key programming, they may well just need recoding. The aerial around the ignition barrel is a fairly common failure too though. First step would be a Lexia session to check that the keys are synced & attempt recoding.
Have you checked ALL the fuses?

[andy5]

Two keys, same effect with both.

I'll go and look at all the fuses, should that include the ones under the bonnet?

[andy5]

All fuses ok, under dash and next to battery

[GiveMeABreak]

Fuse F2 is the one to be concerned about.

1) Can you confirm when you switch the ignition on only, does the transponder warning light come on or not?
2) Can you lock and unlock the car with the remotes?

[andy5]

Sorry about slow reply, had to go on three hour shopping trip by bus.

Is the transponder warning light the amber one like a key going to the left? Yes, that was on with continuous bleep.

One can remotely lock it, assume other battery flat.

Since then, it's gone back to without warning light or bleep, just the fuel pump not running.

I'll look at the pump tomorrow, but clearly the other issue being intermittent could become awkward anywhere away from home.

[andy5]

Duff home internet here as well - new router in post

It's not simply the fuel pump, as the new one won't run either. Transponder warning (amber logo and sound) not happening this morning though.

Breakdown person coming to look at it, possibly followed by move to Citroen specialist rather than main dealer.

[Activa TCT]

Bad battery will also make it fail to start. Spray some wd40 or ether start into intake and see if she coughs (don't use glow plugs).

[andy5]

No it's definitely not the battery. In-tank fuel pump not running, and neither would a potential replacement. So it's suspect key-transponder system, and waiting to hear ...

[Activa TCT]

Fuel pump (as well as ecu power) is controlled by the idiotic bitron relay. It is near the ecu on left side of engine, near the bumper. Check the contacts, mine were corroded as well as relay had slight water stains inside.

Does the engine even spin if you crank it ?

[white exec]

The Bitron (double) relay is not unreliable in itself, but prone - like all the "front end" relays to connector oxidation over years of hot and weathered use. On XM and Xantia, after a decade or two of use, most of the up-front relays will benefit from having their connector contacts cleaned up. That includes Bitron, AC, dip beam, ABS, and glow-plug. Alternatively, you can wait until something fails, then hunt it down. There are a few intermediate (cable) connectors too, but these are less troublesome, partly due to being tucked away.

[andy5]

Engine turns. The car is now at specialist about 25 miles away, but by this morning they hadn't had a chance to look at it yet. I might phone and suggest Bitron relay, thanks.

When you say left hand side, I assume that's direction of travel?

If so, besides that, I noticed that when I removed and replaced a battery lead, there was slight arcing at the terminal and a relay clunking but I thought it sounded like it was over the other side, somewhere near coolant header tank.

[white exec]

Very slight arcing, and relays engaging, is normal when the battery is reconnected.

[xantia_v6]

The Bitron relay will be found in the ECU box on the right hand (when sitting in the car) side of the car.

I am fairly certain that the immobiliser does not stop the in-tank pump from running.

[Rhothgar]

Can I tag onto this post please?

The transponder symbol has not gone away on my 110 HDi purely with reseating the connector as suggested.

I am not getting any fuel through to the filter. Car has been sat for 18 months and was last successfully started about a year ago on the button.

We got it going with brake cleaner squirted into the air intake. Knocking like hell though. Put 5 litres of diesel in. Wish I had have put some directly into the filter at the front. Have cranked and cranked and cranked it but still no fuel coming through.

The suggestion in this post is that the tank has a fuel pump built-in. I didn't know if the fuel was pumped or sucked. From memory, there is no manual primer bulb on the HDi, am I correct in saying this?