2015 Grand c4 picasso 2.0 bluehdi dual mass flywheel clutch kit failed at 30k miles HELP

[sarchnary]

My story is a bit long hope you don’t mind and if it’s at wrong section please correct me.

I have 2015 CITROËN C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 blue hdi 150 6 speed manual

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

My flywheel was faulty due to engine vibration and flywheel faulty message on diagnosis and I had stiff clutch after I removed the gearbox I found out the clutch central slave cylinder is gave in and the bearing (if this is correct name) inside the mass flywheel is gone as well so now there is loads of playing on the DMF.

Car only done 30k miles and am not keen on buying the same make or model of dmf just looks rubbish to fail at that low mileage, considering my other cars done way above 120k and ten years of driving and still didn’t change dmf or clutch, this is just above 3 years and it was always giving me problems, stupidly didn’t take it to another Citroen dealers only my small town one till it was too late.

Part number
CSC 9675000480 (bought one new now)
DMF 9808378880
DMF reconditioned 1649616080 ( service.citroen.com shows this not sure what this is) if fits my car it says.

I am changing this myself as per full story below if you have time to read please do so,

Right now can't afford new parts looking for good second hand one with 10k miles or less maybe and its been a month or so car sat outside friends drive and didn't find parts suitable to mine.

I want to use later version dmf can anyone confirm if a DMF from any other car make and model 2.0 diesel fit this model photos in the link below, so far I found:


Lastly most expensive one 2017 C4 gp 2.0 blue hdi but this one is most expensive one it comes with 6 mounting bores

I am not sure if only 2015 model has this 8 bolts to mount if not why the 2017 and so on has only 6 bolts

Any advise would be really great .

Clutch disc and pressure plates seems ok? Any advise by looking at photos?
But don’t mind if I could buy three piece kit as they all are 3 piece kit online.

Other option would be send flywheel for repair but haven’t found any good garages yet or do they fix them here in the U.K.?

Photos here

http://s192.photobucket.com/user/sarchn ... %20gp%20gb

[GiveMeABreak]

You'll need to post up your VIN number - it's important to have the correct part number for the specific model and build year. You can't just fit another type unless it is shown to be the same part number that also fits another model.

[sarchnary]

You'll need to post up your VIN number - it's important to have the correct part number for the specific model and build year. You can't just fit another type unless it is shown to be the same part number that also fits another model.

Hi Marc

Just added the vin and here it’s again in this reply


VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks for your help

So far just through visual photograph compare if feel like it’s similar to the old c4 GP 2.0 hdi flywheel
Or the one on the 2016 Onward Ford S-Max

Cheers

[GiveMeABreak]

So the correct Dual mass Flywheel is part number: 9808378880 (new) or 1649616080 for an reconditioned one. Item (11) below.

They are £553 and £522 inc. VAT repsectively from Citroen,

You can pick up decent branded (Valeo, Sachs) for about the £400 mark.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flywheel-Clu ... 3889271951

The thing to remember is that there are hundreds of these things out there and they are designed for a specific transmission fitting / engine / torque etc., etc., so important you get the correct part number or you will end up with problems and wasting money. With these part numbers, you can search for an aftermarket solution.

[sarchnary]

Thanks Marc,

I used to know of a website where you put oem part numbers then it’ll give you after markets part numbers but I can’t find it no more, do you know such websites to find after markets one,

Cheers

[white exec]

You'll find the 980..... DMF (Valeo, new) on Mister Auto, at £247.90.
Mister Auto is owned by PSA.

[GiveMeABreak]

Bargain then^

[sarchnary]

You'll find the 980..... DMF (Valeo, new) on Mister Auto, at £247.90.
Mister Auto is owned by PSA.

Hi Chris thanks for that information, I am really scared to buy Valeo as the original one was Valeo and it failed quite early.

When I took it apart the CSC was all loose and the bearing at the centre of flywheel was damaged and loads of movements hence the vibration at high revs and high gear and engine faulty warning sign at cold start.

Not sure if it was just unlucky in my case or what.

Do you think SACHS OR LUK make better quality DMF?

Thanks

[myglaren]

Could be a Friday build.
I had a clutch and DMF replaced on my first C5 at 130,000 miles - misdiagnosis but both were on their last legs.
Current C5 on 235,000 miles and although the clutch will slip for a second or so every few weeks the DMF is OK.

[GiveMeABreak]

It's very hit and miss with these - I'm on my second DMF at 75k on the X7 - first went at 40k (previous owner towed), but was shot to bits when the clutch and DMF were replaced due to slipping, second slip shortly after was due to crankcase oil seal leaking and contaminating new clutch - so new clutch again after the repair. They have been known to fail at 20k miles! Others get longer use - so it all depends a lot on engine power, how you drive it (using 5th / 6th gear unnecessarily at low speeds - which is easy to do can put a bigger strain on it) etc. I don't think it's a brand thing really - as different people will tell you different stories - a lot more likely to be variances between the models, weights, engine power / torque and driving conditions, as said. Oh, and resting your foot on the clutch pedal - however little is a big no no.

[sarchnary]

Could be a Friday build.
I had a clutch and DMF replaced on my first C5 at 130,000 miles - misdiagnosis but both were on their last legs.
Current C5 on 235,000 miles and although the clutch will slip for a second or so every few weeks the DMF is OK.

Must be my bad luck then, car had stiff clutch from day one bought it with 13k on the clock and 6 months old.
Went to local dealer at 13k -25k during a time frame up until the car became 2.5 years old for recalls etc, and I complained about it but was told it’s ok and not to worry about it. It did had few recalls which one was clutch master cylinder and few more works.

One incident the clutch slipped and car stalled and I could smell the clutch, took it to dealer next day and I was assured nothing to worry about.

This was the first time I had a car with warranty remaining I always bought cars older and out of warranty, so I didn’t know that I should have went to few other dealers to get their opinion.

Now car just over 3yrs old and done 30k which I done 18k of those miles in a period of 3 years period and only motorway miles to Spain and south of France and Morocco 3 road trips abroad when kids were on summer holidays.

I’ve done 120k miles on my previous 2008 C4 GP and still was going fine.

Went back to dealers(now they not Citroen deal anymore) they told me the can’t offer me anything but call Citroen

Called Citroen and explained it’s not right for it to fail at such low miles but they didn’t offer anything and told me to sue the dealers as they failed to diagnose the problem while car was still under warranty and they’ve had many chances while car was with them the dozens of time I took it to them for works.

I even called Valeo to see if they offer anything no luck there either

[GiveMeABreak]

Unfortunately - no use now I know, but it is essential you get things sorted at the time and don't be fobbed off.

I had lots of warranty issues with mine and only once did the dealer refuse a job thinking it wouldn't be covered (rear suspension pipe), but I spoke to the company who run Citroen Extended Warranty directly, and they authorised without quibble.

Another time was when a TPMS wheel pressure sensor blew out on the dual carriageway (the whole thing, not just the valve), leaving a hole in the wheel. Luckily the suspension system compensated and I drove the 2 miles back to the dealer, and I said that under health & safety concerns I wanted the lot replaced not just the one. The dealers declined - but after I got onto Citroen HQ, they overrode the garage and replaced the lot without question. This was a known issue with the metals reacting and corroding. Once I mentioned that had I been driving round town, this would of shot out like a bullet and could of killed a child or seriously injured somebody they apologised and ordered the garage to change the lot.

[white exec]

DMFs are a fairly dreadful concept, and back in the 00's suffered a very high rate of failure across all models and makes of flywheel. Valeo and LUK were the major makers. Our RAV4 (2.0 D4D) wrecked two of these - one at 60k km, and another (genuine Toyota 'improved' replacement) just 24k km later.

In the last 10 years, reliability has improved, but they are still regarded as "a consumable part", with the recommendation by most car manufacturers that they should be replaced when replacing the clutch. Monstrous!

There are various things which can shorten their life, including hill starts (why would anyone do one of these?) - especially in reverse, jerky or unsmooth use of the accelerator, rough gear changing, engine stalling while in gear (which can produce a huge thud through the gear train on a diesel), accidental starting while in gear, bump starting, etc.

All of these cause the flywheel springs to suddenly dramatically compress, and eventually the movement turns from spring-cushioning into radial slop. That, in turn, causes the clutch friction plate to wear rapidly, sometimes to the point of actually breaking up.

Symptoms of DMF wear are, as you know, vibration and judder, tinkling and jangling in the clutch area, and difficulty with hills starts - especially in the higher-geared reverse.

I don't think Valeo are any worse than anyone else with these. LUK have had their fair share of failures, too. If there is any other part of the transmission system that isn't working smoothly (eg the clutch cable/mechanism you spoke about) it will aggravate the situation. Basically, what DMFs don't like is sudden power/torque changes, or snatching. They are a flawed combination of shock-absorbing springing (up to 45º of rotational movement between halves) and designed-in friction/damping. As they age, the spings acquire backlash, and the damping lessens. Eventually you have a huge amount of uncontrolled slop in the system. The sooner we see the back of them the better.

At the price of the Valeo unit, I'd go for it, drive smoothly, and know that the part might not last for ever, but at least hasn't involved spending a fortune.

[Paul-R]

Presumably these are all three-piece kits (cover, plate and release bearing). So you should budget for a DMF as well.

[GiveMeABreak]

It's the DMF he wants Paul...