1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

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MikeR33
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1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

So , here is the full story ,

I did the cambelt on the car , tested if the timing marks align properly , started and ran the engine for few seconds , just like the rest numerous HDi's I have done , and just like that used a small screw driver to push out out the timing crank pulley, as it wasn't coming by hand as usual , in order to put back the timing belt plastic guide and that's when the timing ring came off , oh and i didn't mark it, why i'm using the pins , lucky as hell as always , so i did try to put it back with the pin and engine set to timing hoping i would find it correct position , but with no luck and the car did not started in any slight adjustments i did to the ring itself , the timing was not in any way touched , so i just bought an used one , when it arrived , i just replaced it , checked the timing twice again and started the engine just fine , BUT things were not as they should be, again , car can not go over 1500 RPM , just like hitting rev limiter , runs perfect on idle , as soon as you give it a go on the throttle , bang ,not going anywhere , plugged in the diagnostic tool , no faults , so i started thinking again , checked timing, but the thing is with wrong timing it wont start at all . One thing i noticed , tappet noise on the first start , as car was on a jack sitting sideways , but as soon as i lowered the jack it all cleared out and ran smooth ! One other thing i noticed the car took a hit underneath and the oil pan was smashed a bit , but the car was running before , still i have some concerns about tappet not operating properly , but im thinking that if there were any valves or tappets issues , it would run like crap on idle as well , but it doesn't! Ive done quite a lot of these engines and never ever had anything like that before , not without an actual fault code or smth . If anyone can give advice or had smth similar I would appreciate it a TON !

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xantia_v6
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by xantia_v6 »

Welcome to the forum!

An interesting challenge, but I don't understand which problem you are actually asking for help with.

MikeR33
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

Car doesn’t rev over 1500 RPM , there’s no other problem than this !
Thanks

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I suspect the engine management ECU has gone into a back up mode and is limiting power due to a fault.

There should be a fault code in this case, but if you aren’t using Peugeot Planet 2000 or Diagbox diagnostic kit you may not be able to interrogate the ECU.

You’ll need the fault codes that should be logged to be able to start diagnosing this to be honest. Post them here with your VIN so we can assist further.

MikeR33
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

How would the ECU go in to limp mode by itself , I mean the only thing done to the car was Timing belt and water pump replacement! Even if so , I do use a good diagnostic tool , not a cheap eBay one , I never had any issues reading out any codes on any car , and I’m 100% sure there are no codes ! I will try today to do some adaptations on some of the components and see if it makes any difference. I’ve heard before that these engines tappets get stuck and it could cause that , no big logic in this as it used to run just fine before I messed up the timing ring , but it did sit sideways for quite some time after that ...I will read out for codes today and see if there’s any change !

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by GiveMeABreak »

What model and what year is this - we really need a VIN to assist...

MikeR33
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

Thanks for the quick replies! The problem is that this is a Mini , it is 09 plate , so the VIN number won’t do anything I guess , engine is absolutely the same as on any Peugeot or Citroen or Ford , so that’s why I’m recalling for help with you guys !

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No - not really, that won't help in this case. The reason we ask is that there are different variations of these engines in use and different engine management systems - there are non-generic 'constructor' fault codes that are relevant to the manufacturer, so it is important that any faults are read in conjunction with the correct engine ECU as the codes can have different reasons for triggering along with different parameters.

Regarding your earlier question - if the timing is out or not set correctly, the data reported by the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors (which work together to monitor the timing) will be potentially reporting incorrect positioning data to the engine ECU and that can cause any number of back up modes to be initiated as the air and fuelling will be incorrect. Any faults faults can trigger a backup mode and restrict engine power to help prevent damage. There are some differences in procedures for timing belt changes on these engines, but I can't really be specific as this is a Mini. You'll really need some technical resources and some live data to see what's going on or check on the correct timing procedure for that engine / vehicle to see if there is anything you have missed.

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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by RichardW »

Is there a chance you turned the engine backwards at some point?

MikeR33
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

I’ve read about that issue with turning the engine back and jumping a tooth on the chain , but my timing marks align perfectly, car has no noise when running , and the only turning backwards was just tiny bit when missing timing positions in order to fit the pins , plus the car has done just 70k and I doubt that it has that much slack so that it could skip a tooth on the chain , these have quite large teeth on the sprocket so it would be hard to jump over !

Update , after leaving the car to run for a while and keeping my foot on the throttle for some time it did throw a code , but when idling with no throttle , no code ! 3E91 Crankshaft Sensor , Signal , so I did check again timing and then took out the timing pulley to see anything wrong with it , turned out that the part number differs by one letter from the original one and I was assured that it’s the correct one for the car , so my guess is that it is not reading out properly , but at the same time I wonder how did it manage to start and run till 1500rpm , anyway I did order a new one with exact matching part number and will throw it in to see what would happen and btw , the pulleys look absolutely identical on the outside , it’s just the magnetized part that can not be seen and matched , as it’s under there ! Hope this saves it , otherwise I’m getting in to a major adventure with this one !
Last edited by MikeR33 on 05 Sep 2019, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That's not a PSA code as I suspected - but that's probably why the engine ECU is throwing one based on the crankshaft position sensor as I mentioned.

MikeR33
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Re: 1.6 HDi 9HZ Engine Running Issues

Post by MikeR33 »

You are absolutely right , this is not an PSA code , it is a Bmw code , as Mini is owned by them , but if the code is crankshaft related and not camshaft , I’m guessing it could be the actual pulley , as it seems the camshaft reads properly and the signal that the crankshaft one is receiving is different form what the ECU expects , I’ll just replace it and see what happens , I’ll keep the topic updated if it’s sorted or it needs more digging!
Thanks a lot for the replies!