C3 Picasso Power Steering Failure

[jesschap]

Power steering failed on my 2011 C3 Pic Hdi last week. I read that this is possibly a free repair so went straight to Main Dealer. Car was agreed to be in scope but after diagnostics they appear to be saying that my under performing car battery has caused the power steering motor to fail! I have a background in Helicopter electrics and the idea that a battery fault can cause a motor to fail permanently doesn't seem credible. No indication of alleged battery fault in car at any time. Due to circumstances I am probably going to have to accept the repair cost and appeal later. Any suggestions on dealer diagnosis, best way to complain or indeed if their view of the fault is in fact credible, gratefully received.

[xantia_v6]

If you can, I would escalate this as high as you can in the dealer management chain, and if necessary, Citroen head office customer support.

They may fall back to an excuse that the car does not have a complete and continuous service history... but it is better to have the argument before they are holding your money.

[GiveMeABreak]

Three things:

First of all we need to determine if there were any power steering related faults codes.

1) I can tell you that lack of power steering assistance can indeed be attributable to a weak battery. These use electro pumps. I had an alternator belt go on my C5 last year and drove 20 miles home with the steering getting progressively stiffer towards the last 2 miles on the winding country lanes where more assistance was needed. I obviously wasn't aware of the belt snapping at this time. When I got home the steering was really tight at parking speeds. When I checked under the bonnet I could see the alternator belt had clean snapped off. The car and obviously the electric steering pump had been operating entirely on remaining battery power as well as providing all the other power requirements.

Having said that - the battery would have to be almost discharged and not getting charged by the alternator to cause a total failure if it was purely a battery issue. The alternator should of been able to supply enough power to provide assistance, assuming the battery was receiving the current.

2) If there is any earth or supply fault to the electric steering module this can cause intermittent assistance issues. There are tests they can do to check the supply and earth to the plug on the unit and also actuator tests to determine oil temperature etc.

3) If you have had an impact to either of the front wheels (even minor) the torsion bar internal to the power steering valve can become twisted as a result of any impact.

Did they mention if this was a recall or a if there was a technical service bulletin for the issue and did they give you any diagnostic codes. If there were, ask for the codes or a copy of the diagnostic report. If you are paying for it, you have a right to the information by law, or a full refund of the diagnostic charge if they refuse. If they refuse tell them you will be taking it up with Head office and in the small claims court.

[Jshaw0434]

We have had this fault now, whilst driving, it just went, ours is a 2010 but has 155000 miles, is there any point trying to get it foc or will I just have to suck it up and pay? Only asking as our Citroen garage will most likely cost more + a diagnostic charge and is more of a drive. Halfords is down the road and have free diagnostic.

[GiveMeABreak]

Your car is well out of scope for any gratis contribution by Citroen I think - as it is over 10 years old.

The electric PS pumps are built onto the rack and I know the C3 had issues with the electrical connections to the PS unit. As the PS pump runs directly from the battery, a poor battery can cause issues for sure. When did you last change your car battery? If you've had it over 5 years then it won't be operating at full capacity anyway. If it is ending service life, then although you may think it is fully charged, that may only be of its current capacity. So fully charged at 50% capacity is well below fully charged at 80-100% capacity.

Also check the electrical connections near the PS pump ECU - if the wiring is weak it may be broken causing intermittent performance.

[Dave11]

2011 reg; 63,700 miles. 2 owners. full service history though not all with Citroen. Power steering failed this month. Printed out a few success messages such as those on forums. Took it to Worleys of High Wycombe, UK, Citroen dealer. Good garage. No questions re service history. Repaired with no questions & no cost, not even diagnostic charge. Be aware, however, that they had been told by Citroen that as mine was still under 10 years, it was covered. If 10 years + 1 day, it would not have been!

[ecnalyecar]

Hi Very interested reading this thread as my wife's Picasso Reg 2011 had a power steering warning light come on last Monday, shortly after returning from our garage for an unrelated heat shield and shock absorber problem. As it was difficult to drive they came out and collected and told us following a diagnostic check that the power steering motor had failed and if we were to get it done they could do it for £636 whereas the cost through a Citroen dealer may be upwards of £1200 to replace the motor! Not good either way and not just before Christmas, so I was in a way pleased to see we weren't the only ones to have experienced this problem and hoped we might be able to get it done free as some of you have. However having waited until Friday for Citroen to reply they said:

"For Citroen Customer Care to be able to offer our customers any aid towards the costs of their vehicle repairs, a diagnosis must be carried out at one of our approved dealerships. In addition to this, the customer must have had services done at our approved garages shown via a clear service record book, and all parts used for any previous repairs must be genuine Peugeot parts.

If the fault is shown to be a manufacturing or material defect, we would be able to investigate whether any aid can be offered to you. "

The car was second hand and hasn't got a full service history. We always use our local independent garage for this and our other cars because they're good and try and keep costs down, so any parts used probably haven't been genuine Peugeot parts. So it's impossible for us to comply with Citroen's statement.

It seems very restrictive because if you ever acquire a Citroen you can only get major defects rectified by them if you've used their services throughout. So buyer beware buying Citroens second hand. If all other car manufacturers/dealers took that attitude that would lead to monopolies and the end of independent garages which doesn't seem right.

Obviously I want to challenge Citroen on this.

There may not have been a product recall and my garage couldn't find one but the number of cases of Citroen C3 Picasso's getting this problem is a worrying trend, so I think there must be some technical fault and thus something owners should not be liable for.

Would you agree and would you have any ideas how I can get them to change their minds?

If anyone has got theirs fixed free using an independent garage or had an incomplete service history or not used genuine Peugeot parts, I'd be very grateful to know. At the moment our car is stuck on our garage's forecourt and I can't leave it there forever. If I got the work done whilst appealing do you think it would weaken our case?. Thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

[War & Peace Alert]

Unfortunately, this is the stand on this and they are entitled to do so. They do offer you your standard warranty of course and then options to extend that generally - but in cases of out of warranty repairs they can't realistically be expected to be culpable if sub-standard or non-PSA approved parts have been used for repairs. Unless you have maintenance records of services and any parts used, they are more likely to refuse this as it is a condition of the warranty - servicing / repairs must have been undertaken according to the manufacturer's requirements - whether at Citroen or elsewhere.

Although you are perfectly entitled to have your car serviced at a non-franchised dealership, Citroen are within their rights to expect any servicing to be done to the manufacturer's standards using manufacturer-approved parts. Note that even Citroen can offer a 'Genuine' part at their dealerships alongside a Citroen approved part that is generally cheaper - which is why when choosing a servicing option with PSA, you can often choose between 2 options - based on the quality of the parts used.

Take a typical Timing belt service example on a Puretech 1.2 - it costs £399 when using Citroen Approved Parts, but £499 if opting for Citroen Genuine Parts.

So going back to out of warranty repairs - they would have to have some sort of evidence of a manufacturing fault - and they collect this data from customers complaining about problems - essentially doing the 'real word' R&D for them. As more of the same issues are reported, they look for patterns, that lead to software improvements or replacement parts / and ultimately after sales campaigns to inform customers of the free of charge work to be undertaken. Now here's the issue - in these cases, where issues are not safety related, resulting in a VOSA recall, the manufacturer can opt to undertake an After Sales Campaign. Now if you were a regular Citroen customer having your car serviced at a franchised dealer, they would automatically notify you if one of these campaigns was relevant. But as so often happens, people tend to service their own cars or take them elsewhere - so Citroen have no idea how to contact customers. Further, cars change hands on the second hand market so again they lose contact with owners - and it is often later when people come here for example with an issue, that we can sometimes identify an outstanding campaign due on a vehicle.

So unless you have evidence of servicing that has been carried out to the manufacturer's scheduled maintenance intervals and to their standards (which includes all the specific checks and replacement of service items and fluids) then they are within their rights to refuse any payment towards the cost of any components repairs.

It has been noted though and depending on the issue, the vehicle age, the mileage and service history that Citroen may at their discretion make a contribution towards a repair.

Lastly, Citroen routinely undertake a 'Health Check' generally free of charge when you go in for any work and always during a Service. This is what they check and note the area in red. I suspect if you had one of these undertaken and nothing was picked up with the steering, it may of increased your chances of getting some contribution.

Lights / Electrics Checks
Mandatory lights (external)
Horn / wipers / washers

External / Internal Checks
Brake noise / feel
Clutch / transmission operation
Engine noise / smoke
Glass / mirrors / wiper blades
Seat belts – security & operation

Under Bonnet Checks
Fluid levels – oil / water / coolant / screenwash
Fluid leaks – oil / water
Battery condition / drive belts

Brakes / Hubs Checks
Brake fluid condition / temperature
Master cylinder / servo
Linings – pads / shoes
Discs / drums
Hoses / pipes / cables / wheel bearings

Underside Checks
Exhaust system / catalyst
Steering / suspension
Drive shafts / gaiters
Oil leaks

Wheels / Tyres Checks
Nearside front
Offside front
Nearside rear
Offside rear
Spare
Tyre pressures (check & advise accordingly)

Fluid Checks
Coolant (check and advise accordingly)
Brake fluid (check and advise accordingly)
Screenwash (check and advise accordingly)
Engine oil (check and advise accordingly)

[Muckyoven]

My power steering failed on my 2011 c3 Picasso 2 years ago and they said it was a weak battery so I purchased a new battery and car has been fine for 2 years then the other day my power steering failed again so had battery tested and it was fine , so I rang Chorley Citroen dealer and told them it has failed once more and nothing wrong with battery. They did a computer test and it was showing a fault on Motor and circuit board. They did the repair for free because there is a problem with 2010 and 2011 cars.

[pagesy1958]

Had to post a thank you to all on the forum, Last week my wife was driving her C3 Picasso 2011 when the power steering failed. I managed to get it home and ignorantly tried to check the fluid level and possibly belts (I didnt know about motorised steering). I had it recovered to an independent who quoted between £550 and £750 as a ballpark. Idly perusing the possible causes I came across this thread and asked the garage to send me the error code which I passed to a local Citroen dealer. The upshot is after an interesting drive between the two garages (I must eat more shreddies) Citroen are in the process of replacing the motor FOC as they agree its the known issue and my car is not 10 until October., good work by Citroen and a good advert for checking the forum for any issue. Thanks.

[white exec]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.
Bish, bosh, brilliant result. Nice to hear of such a good outcome before signing up here. Well done, you.
Hope we can be just as useful in the future.
Let us know how things go.

[Hell Razor5543]

Well done, and have a virtual pint of beer;

[pagesy1958]

Appreciated, and Good to have backup from you guys as I feel another Citroen coming on. I think my 8th. Of all I still miss my Xantia destroyed by an errant Artic on the M1. BTW if anyone else has the issue on a sub 10 year old C3 the error code seen was P0606

[pagesy1958]

Hmmmm, I should know better. Im afraid its all gone pete tong. Having taken my car to the dealer they agreed it was the faulty motor issue and covered by the warranty. They subsequently fitted the new motor but when I went to pick the car up they asked me if I realised the steering rack was faulty ? when I started the car the steering made a horrible grinding noise in either direction something that definitely wasnt noticed before. They advised me it was not connected with the known issue and not covered. I was quoted £1880 to replace it. As Im adamant I didnt have this issue before the work I appealed it to Citroen who couldnt have been less interested, they tell me the dealers are their technical experts and they have to agree with them that its a seperate fault. Im now left with a car that although driveable is worryingly noisy from the steering. Obviously £1880 is probably two thirds of the cars value so a non starter. Seems I will be buying a recon one and doing it myself, on a scale of one to "chuffing hell" how hard a job ? Im waiting on a final decision from Citroen but I expect nothing and have told them this may well end my relations with them and the personal lease Im likely to do this year will definitely not be a Citroen. Can I keep my beer please

[Hell Razor5543]

That is less than optimal news, but yes; you can keep the beer (you might want a second one to drown your sorrows in, so here it is! ).