C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 14 Aug 2019, 09:06

The EPB on my 2013 C5 X7 Tourer recently stopped working with the following dash warnings:
C13E4036-E505-4A0C-9C9C-6F52AB58FEB2.jpeg
8664BAFB-F446-4E91-8F23-832A993BFBD1.jpeg
D6195CB7-6906-43E8-B594-B7C320CEDE6D.jpeg
BCC02851-87E2-4EFC-AFBB-1026172F2B4C.png

The Anti Rollback warning sign appeared first, with the three smaller warning lights, and the Parking brake faulty notice appeared a few days later.

The electronic handbrake lever produces a repeated loud clicking noise from the rear offside caliper but doesn’t put on the brakes.

I don’t have Lexia so pulled the OBD codes which were
U1218
P1497
P11AA
And seem unrelated to the handbrake.

I’ve completed a BSI reset but it made no difference. Coincidently, the car’s 20k miles Service light appeared at around the same time - but not at the same time. The Service light came on a couple of days before - and the mileage countdown for this appears correct.

Appreciate any guidance.

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Aug 2019, 09:53

I was going to ask for the codes - but you added them after, so I suspect there are other codes related to the EPB that your OBD reader cannot access. These are constructor-specific codes, and really are needed to see what may be the issue.

The U1218 is BSI information code that can apply to different ECUs on the network - but the one in relation to the EPB would not seem to apply as all 3 of the warning lights you have shown are lit, where they are not in the BSI specific handbrake fault.

So we really need Diagbox on the vehicle to progress, as that will also allow further testing on the system.

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 14 Aug 2019, 12:10

Thanks Marc for your reply.
I don’t see a diagbox user on the forum map who’s close to me in Swansea, so I’ll have to consider buying one.
Alternatively, can someone suggest a trusted independent workshop in my area to use?

The rear wheel clicking I mentioned above is actually on both wheels, which suggests a control problem as opposed to one on an individual wheel.

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Aug 2019, 12:17

Yes. it will be inside the EPB mechanism - but we don't know what is wrong and these are not user serviceable generally - it could be a matter of the cables are disconnected. Try a long pull up of the handbrake - which will apply maximum force and make a noise where it will try and connect them. If not, do the opposite, pust the handbrake button down fully with foot on the brake pedal - which should release them fully - then try another full application. If it doesn't reconnect the cables - you really do need to get it read. I would be wary of anyone not familiar with these - they are massively expensive to replace.

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 14 Aug 2019, 18:35

Tried the long pull and push in the lever (a couple of times) with no joy.
There’s a garage in Swansea proclaiming to be Citroen expert (Lloyds Citroen Specialists) so will call them tomorrow. If I get nowhere it’ll be off to the local dealer, but I assume they’ll want to replace parts rather than diagnosing the problem and I suppose that’s going to be expensive. MOT due at end of month so something will need to be done.

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Aug 2019, 19:28

Yes, i's very hard to say, but you really need somebody with Diagbox that can read these specific codes - if he's a Citroen specialist, I would expect him to have Diagbox anyway. Diagbox can be used to fully release and disengage the brake cables - usually done when changing the rear brakes. Then the system goes through a reconnection routine where it sounds like the motor runs for a while until it reattaches the cables.

I put some info up here on the system throughout the thread:

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... ake+cables

and here, amongst other places.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... es#p574152

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 15 Aug 2019, 15:05

I thought there’re was a map here identifying Lexia owners but I can’t find it (or may have dreamt it!).
Could someone please point me in the right direction, or let me know of someone in South Wales with Lexia who could help by pulling the fault codes.
Thanks

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 15 Aug 2019, 15:28

There's actually nobody in Wales on the list - but I'm sending you a PM

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 19&t=56452

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 16 Aug 2019, 16:41

Ok, so after looking at those codes today Steve, this is what the official take is:
Fault codeC1559
After sales description of the fault codeSystem locked: Electric motor, cables or calipers
Description of the diagnosticsThreshold of the application and release counter exceeded
Rotation speed of the electric motor too high
Lockup detected
Maximum number (=2000) of releases at the stop exceeded
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsActivation of the electrically-controlled parking brake
Conditions of disappearance of the faultApplication and release of the electrically-controlled parking brake successful
Down-grade modes if fault presentDeactivation of automatic mode
No application or release
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a": lit
- "b": On for 10 seconds after the request for application or release
- "c": lit
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake releases unexpectedly
Suspect areasElectric parking brake

Fault codeC155E
After sales description of the fault codeMechanical release of the Electric Parking Brake detected fault
Description of the diagnosticsMovement of the electric parking brake actuator detected without any action of the electric motor
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsManual release of the electric parking brake
Conditions of disappearance of the fault-
Down-grade modes if fault presentNo back-up mode
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp
- "a": Not on
- "b": On for 10 seconds after the request for application or release
- "c": Not on
Main customer complaints likelyIllumination of LED/Error message
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not apply correctly
Electrically-controlled parking brake does not release correctly
Suspect areasUse of the electric parking brake with the lever
Calibration of the electric parking brake
After doing a bit of research, I found this site and a chap with the same C1559 error - here's a couple of pics of the EPB unit outside cover and inside:
EPB A.PNG
EPB B.PNG
The translated from Polish link is here: I'm not sure how helpful it is, but there is mention of some help releasing the motor winding from what I can tell. So maybe this might help with your local specialist Steve?

https://www.elektroda.com/rtvforum/topic3333069.html

A bit more on a similar issue here:

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=60013


Regarding the use of the manual release of the EPB Steve, just found the following - as I can't remember if you allowed enough time for it to reinitialise - I'm sure you did and that this would't be causing the issues, but here for reference:

Backup unlock control.
The backup unlock control is located under the trim of the central armrest.
In the event of a failure of the electric parking brake or a flat battery, the use of the backup unlock control allows the mechanical release of the electric parking brake.

When the fault has been cured, lifting the electric parking brake control for a period of more than 3 seconds activates the electrically controlled parking brake.

During the reinitialisation for a period of about 10 to 20 seconds, the parking brake indicator light flashes on the instrument panel and a message is displayed on the instrument panel dot matrix.

At the end of this reinitialisation, the electrically controlled parking brake is applied, the parking brake indicator light on the instrument panel and the LED in the electric parking brake control come on without flashing.

Worst case scenario - current price of the unit from Citroen is part number: 1612865480 £1007.18 inc. VAT. I hope the local chaps can get inside the unit and see if there is anything obvious happening - or not happening as the EPB is applied - which might give them a clue Steve. [-o<

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 16 Aug 2019, 23:41

Hi Marc
Thanks very much for your help and guidance today.
I’ll try the procedure you’ve included tomorrow, but think I’ve probably already held it on for 20 seconds. Still, worth another try before facing a £1000+ bill!!
I’ll let you know how it goes.

Y Cymro
Posts: 76
Joined: 11 Sep 2017, 11:36
x 5

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Y Cymro » 21 Aug 2019, 15:58

The car’s in with my local specialist, Lloyds in Swansea. Lloyds taken a look and found that one of the cables from the Electronic Handbrake unit to the brake calliper has snapped. He tells me that the cable isn’t available and that a whole new unit with cables comes to over £1200 including fitting.
Just wondering if anyone’s managed to replace a cable without buying the whole lot. Or perhaps had a replacement cable made up?
Alternatively does anyone have this for sale from a 2013 C5 x7 (mk 3) Exclusive Tourer? I believe the saloon is different. Just the cables will do as I’ll attempt to retrofit them to my electronic unit.
Thanks

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16887
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1570

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by GiveMeABreak » 21 Aug 2019, 16:11

Hi Steve :x Grim news on that front then.

1612865480 is the revised parking brake part number. As you can see only the cable sleeve is available, not the cables themselves.
The original part number was: 470214
X7 EPB.PNG
£1007.18 inc. VAT is the current retail price from Citroen.

The cheapest I've seen one is here: New at £774.51 plus 15 Euros shipping to the UK

At least you have the part numbers to search on Steve - so maybe sending off a search request to the breaker circuit. The one's I searched for has all sold out.

User avatar
Paul-R
Posts: 3453
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
x 238

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by Paul-R » 21 Aug 2019, 17:26

Has anyone ever contacted one of the bespoke manufacturers of cables? One of them might have a solution.

A quick Google came up with these:

https://speedycables.com/heavy-duty-cables/ (a name I remember from the past)
http://www.cable-tec.co.uk/Applications ... Cables.asp
https://www.venhill.co.uk/custom-cables/
https://www.thediscdirectory.co.uk/wm/c ... 89431.html

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2016
Posts: 2581
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 562

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by bobins » 21 Aug 2019, 17:41

Venhill are good.... just not very cheap, unfortunately :roll:

RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 8920
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
x 315

Re: C5 X7 2.0 hdi auto electronic parking brake problem

Post by RichardW » 21 Aug 2019, 20:15

But there's a lot of wiggle room, given that a new unit costs over a grand - which is frankly obscene for something that is bound to fail at around 8 years old. In the US that would no doubt be grounds for a class action....