Specialist can't reset fault warnings

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pinheadplanet
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Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 08 Jul 2019, 14:16

Hi

My Citroen specialist in Romsey cannot find the fault with my 2008 C5 Auto Exclusive Petrol 2.0i and yet is unable to reset the fault warnings on the dash.

The problem I had started when I parked on an extreme incline. First warning pinged up "Parking Brake fault" shortly after followed by "ESP faulty", later followed by the dash resembling a christmas tree with "Depollution Fault STOP" at which point it went in to limp mode and I managed to get home before getting it lifted to the garage.

But now I'm stuck, beyond giving it to Citroen (which possibly isn't worth it) and the fact that I've never trusted them since they did something years ago to the car.

Everything I can find online seems to refer to diesels.

Any suggestions?
Thanks
Kelv

72,000 miles. Just MOT'd

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by GiveMeABreak » 08 Jul 2019, 14:48

Hi Kelvin.

Do you have your VIN please so I can see exactly what kit you have...

The Electronic Parking Brake (EPB) has a 'Master' / 'Slave' relationship with the Electronic Stability Programme (ESP) ECU. Although the EPB has an ECU itself, it is the ESP ECU that manages it. It will need to be read with a Lexia / Diagbox in order to get all the codes being reported so we can see what is going on. There are over a hundred codes for the EPB system alone, so you can appreciate why we need them.

When you say the dash lit up like a crimbo tree, what do you actually mean, can you recall any other specific messages or warnings?

It's possible that parking on the steep incline may have upset a wiring plug or connection, but do try this procedure which will cost you nothing but a bit of time and see if a reset will resolve it:

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

pinheadplanet
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 08 Jul 2019, 15:19

Hi Marc

The VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

At the moment the car is kinda stranded at the Garage 8 miles away so I can't try the battery reset right now but will when I go to get it (hopefully before I pay)

Guy at the garage is going to look to see if he can find out what codes came up when the put it on the Lexia, although he was somewhat reluctant, saying wherever it goes next they will need to put it on the lexia anyway... I'll add once he returns with the answer.

As for the dash lighting up, I can't recall exactly what else it came up with. I have a feeling there was another warning that I've not mentioned but I'm afraid memory is not my strong point (this was a couple of weeks ago now). It definitely was "Parking Brake" then ESP and finally Depollution before the warning STOP came up.
Thanks
Kelv

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by GiveMeABreak » 08 Jul 2019, 18:50

Ok, I have that now for future ref. in case we need some diagrams nd to check out he codes when you get them. Just post back here when you have them.

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yannbeam
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by yannbeam » 09 Jul 2019, 00:31

I know some of the models around that age suffered from a fuse box fault which caused symptoms similar those you describe.

pinheadplanet
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 09 Jul 2019, 11:58

So... I've just picked it up from the garage. It started fine and lasted for a minute when the following ping up in this order:

ESP/ASR Faulty
Parking Brake Faulty
Depollution system faulty
Braking system Faulty STOP
Place Automatic gearbox in position "P"
Then the aircon and fan cut out
Then the rev counter and speedo went to zero
Braking system Faulty STOP
Power Steering faulty

at which point it just pinged between Braking system Faulty STOP and Power Steering faulty all the rest of the way home.

When I got home the parking brake did not engage.
Also when I turned it off and removed the key the engine kept running for about a minute.

When I went back out to do the BSI Reset a few moments later the car would not start at all. No response from turning the key.

I did manage to apply the parking brake as this was still off. As I tried to continue to start the car when I put my foot on the brake it was solid stiff.

Eventually the engine did start but the windows do not function (they did work when I left the garage) so I guess I can't do the BSI reset as you need an open window.

The garage did not write down any coides from the lexia so I don't have any.

NOTE - At it's MOT a couple of weeks ago it needed a new clip on the gaitor behind the osf wheel. I jacked it up and removed the wheel to do this. I did not release the LDL reservior (as I'm now reading I should have) this is the only thing that has bben done recently so that's why I'm mentioning it. Possible movement/damage to a sensor somewhere???
Last edited by pinheadplanet on 09 Jul 2019, 13:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Paul-R
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by Paul-R » 09 Jul 2019, 12:35

pinheadplanet wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 11:58
I guess I can't do the BSI reset as you need an open window.
You can, you just need to be a bit more careful doing it.

The idea of the open window is that after you allow all the various ECUs to go to sleep you can do the procedure without opening a door and waking the ECUs up. It's simpler to say "use an open window" rather than give the background to everything.

So, open the door (instead of the window) and then let everything go to sleep. The go through the procedure (disconnect, reconnect, lights, etc) and that will be that. No guarantees it's going to fix the problem though!

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Jul 2019, 12:54

That won't work, we want to ensure the network goes to sleep.

The vehicle’s electrical supply is linked with the requirement of each unit, in relation to the strategies for implementation of the supplies.
The units are supplied either permanently or linked with the waking up of the built-in systems interface.
The waking up of the built-in systems interface is initiated either by action on the high frequency remote control or by the opening of a door or by a remote-controlled wake-up (RCD) action (without turning the ignition key to the ignition position) to permit the activation of certain functions.

Because the door is open, it will prevent the engine ECU (and others on the network) from shutting down properly, which is what we want in this case. Similarly when the battery is connected up again, we want time for the ECUs to reinitialise properly without a triggering event - which it will do if the door is open without the door lock catch being manually shut. So if you can't leave the window open, flip the door lock manually so the BSI thinks the door is shut.

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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Jul 2019, 13:00

pinheadplanet wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 11:58
So... I've just picked it up from the garage. It started fine and lasted for a minute when the following ping up in this order:

ESP/ASR Faulty
Parking Brake Faulty
Depollution system faulty
Braking system Faulty STOP
Place Automatic gearbox in position "P"
Then the aircon and fan cut out
Then the rev counter and speedo went to zero
Braking system Faulty STOP
Power Steering faulty

at which point it just pinged between Braking system Faulty STOP and Power Steering faulty all the rest of the way home.

When I got home the parking brake did not engage.
Also when I turned it off and removed the key the engine kept running for about a minute.

When I went back out to do the BSI Reset a few moments later the car would not start at all. No response from turning the key.

I did manage to apply the parking brake as this was still off. As I tried to continue to start the car when I put my foot on the brake it was solid stiff.

Eventually the engine did start but the windows do not function (they did work when I left the garage) so I guess I can't do the BSI reset as you need an open window.

The garage did not write down any coides from the lexia so I don't have any.

NOTE - At it's MOT a couple of weeks ago it needed a new clip on the gaitor behind the osf wheel. I jacked it up and removed the wheel to do this. I did not release the LDL reservior (as I'm now reading I should have) this is the only thing that has bben done recently so that's why I'm mentioning it. Possible movement/damage to a sensor somewhere???
Looking at that little lot, it smacks of an engine fusebox / BSI fault to have that many systems reporting errors - or a major fault in the wiring.

There's little that a BSI reset will do for this I suspect. Rather than a mechanic, it may be better to involve an auto electrician that has experience with PSA cars. They should have the correct CAN testing equipment - but without the codes it's difficult to try and localise the issue. You could take a chance on a replacement engine fusebox (even second hand) if you wanted to try that first.

pinheadplanet
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 09 Jul 2019, 13:16

- - - - - -
UPDATE 1 Hour later.
Car will not move now. Engine starts, gears engage but Parking brake does release manually or automatically. Steering is impossible to move.

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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 09 Jul 2019, 15:07

For the sake of doing it I did it, the BSI reset, it did nothing. Car starts now and drives forward/backward.

I've not found an auto electrician in Southampton and I suffer with a fear of mistrust when it comes to hiring any sort of workmen as to their level of competence ahving bad experiences with Garages, Boiler technicians, Roofers etc etc

I guess I'll just try to sell it s.a.s.

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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Jul 2019, 16:06

I didn't thik a BSI would help given all the new warnings you told us have now appeared.

Ok, so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place:
  • You need to troubleshoot the issue to narrow down the problem - the fact that your mechanic could get codes says that there is communication with the BSI and engine ECU - so that's a bonus.
  • Without specific codes, it will be guesswork
  • An Auto electrician will charge for diagnostic time in any case
  • Replacing the engine fusebox may fix the issue - but is a guess in the absence of other information and will probably cost no more than an hour of diagnostics.
  • Take a loss and move the car on if you don't want to pursue the issue
Gook luck with whatever you decide, but if you want part numbers or any other help, just ask. :wink:

pinheadplanet
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by pinheadplanet » 09 Jul 2019, 16:29

Thanks for your help Marc.

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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 09 Jul 2019, 17:01

There are Forum members who have Lexia clones (you cannot get an original Lexia), and some are willing to help out other Forum members. It could be worth asking one of them near to you to run a Lexia session on your C5 to see what it comes up with (a generic code reader will not hep you here);

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=56452

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Paul-R
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Re: Specialist can't reset fault warnings

Post by Paul-R » 09 Jul 2019, 18:07

GiveMeABreak wrote:
09 Jul 2019, 12:54
So if you can't leave the window open, flip the door lock manually so the BSI thinks the door is shut.
That's a way round it!

So, when Wheeler says that it's not really necessary to make sure that the door is closed, just leave it alone for a while that this doesn't work at all? Or maybe only for earlier cars?