Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

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martin churchill
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Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by martin churchill » 25 Jun 2019, 20:36

I have a '97 2.1 TD Xantia I had problems with keypad code recognition and iffy no 1 button.

I have read all the threads in this forum about this situation, I have managed to change the code with great success for about 5 restarts. Now I just have both red & green lights on the display. I have done the quick fix, open/close door, ign. on, code and C1C to no avail. I have cleaned up all earth connections I could find and now basically flipped my lid and it's time to remove the keypad and immobiliser.

I have a LUCAS injector pump with no armour so the black connector box and the fuel cutoff solenoid are accessible. I need advice on removal of the complete system and which wires not to disconnect from the injector pump, also confirmation on the wire to the fuel cutoff which is to be connected to the ignition circuit, there are two wires, one red, one green, on the cutoff solenoid. There is also two other solenoid looking things on the top of the injector pump, also with wires but I don't know what they do. Also advice on the fuel cutoff relay box on the left hand side, front of wing, there is a multipin connector with two large female pins in the centre of the plug. Do I leave them connected? At my wits end, please, please, please someone reply who can help me out.

Yours hopefully, Martin

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by xantia_v6 » 25 Jun 2019, 20:54

Your car will have a Lucas EPIC pump, and it is not possible to bypass the immobiliser by doing anything to the pump, as the immobiliser deactivates the ECU and the engine won't run without it.

When both the red and green lights on the immobiliser are illuminated, it is usually a sign that there is no communication between the keypad and the ECU. This could be as simple as a blown fuse causing a loss of power at the ECU, or it could be a fault in the wiring between the keypad and ECU.

We can probably find a wiring diagram for the system if you don't have it.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by Stickyfinger » 25 Jun 2019, 20:57

Has happened to me a few times. I remove the ECU for an hour if a battery disconnect (1 hour) does not work.....works every time (on a V6)

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by white exec » 25 Jun 2019, 21:25

Have just had this on '96 XM, which has similar keypad system.
Cause was fuse F1 (engine bay) not blown, but making poor contact, which threw up red+green.
Allowed cranking, but no injection/ability to start.
Might be worth checking the equivalent fuse on the Xantia. On XM, fuse listed as Anti-theft / Injection.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by xantia_v6 » 25 Jun 2019, 21:33

Here is the circuit diagram of the injection system of the mk1 Xantia with XUD11 engine:

Image

I just remembered that another possible cause of these symptoms is a faulty fuse box under the dash, where failed soldered connections can cause some circuits to lose power in a way that is not obvious from inspection of the diagram above.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by moizeau » 26 Jun 2019, 18:14

It won't be the pump. There is a stop solenoid but not as we know it (xud7/9). Don't take the plastic cover off the pump and fiddle with the wires unless absolutely all other lines of enquiry have been exhausted. There are 13 wires in there that control the various parts off the pump. Over time the insulation goes brittle, if you move them around too much it falls off. You can guess the rest. I've no idea about the Xantia layout but on the 406, next to the ECU is another small rectangular box with a multi pin connector that has a slide lock. The insides weren't secure inside the plug on mine. Turn the ignition on then press all the plugs into their sockets and see if you hear a click. Don't disconnect and reconnect, that may damage the electronics. It you have access to a lexia, the easier way is to do a global test. If it's a simple plug wiring issue the relevant ECU won't be seen. It will also tell you any faults that are logged.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by xantia_v6 » 26 Jun 2019, 18:50

On a mk1 Xantia, Lexia will not help much as the ECU won't talk to it until the immobiliser is unlocked... chicken and egg.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by wheeler » 27 Jun 2019, 09:52

I reckon about 75% of the red & green keypad light faults I have repaired over the years have been no power supply or earth to the ECU.
I would pay particular attention to the feeds at pins 47, 48 & 20 and also the earths at pins 54 & 55.
Don't rely on just checking the voltage with a voltmeter, confirm with a bulb (not an LED) test lamp. same with the earths, use a bulb. If you have a corroded wire it can show a decent voltage but when it is under load it just can carry the current & will barely light a bulb.
The harness under the radiator is a prime spot for wiring harness corrosion that can cause this fault.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by martin churchill » 27 Jun 2019, 11:49

Thanks everyone for the information. The ECU pins I do not have numbers on that so if anyone has a pin layout with numbers it would be appreciated.

As it goes for the wiring it looks as if the wires at the top of the injector pump have already been 'messed' with but the car was driving fine before this problem.

I have noticed when I turn the ignition on I get a double click from the relay by the ECU, is this normal? (sounds to me as if it's engaging/disengaging at the same time).

The rest of the wiring by my ECU and under the centre console don't seem to have any visible reference numbers on them. All the wires leading into the ECU are red & green, as yet I haven't checked the harness under the radiator, this is a little difficult because I cannot get under the car.

Can ones of you kind persons explain to me how I get to the underside of the internal fuse box, as I cannot see any visible fixings.

Thanks again, getting slightly peeved, fed up. Thanks Martin

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by moizeau » 27 Jun 2019, 15:15

Regarding the wiring, there is normally a MIL if there's a problem with the harness, or at least there was with mine.
The stop solenoid is part of the rear most actuator bank (furthest away from the belt) and can't be removed without taking the pump off. On the 13 pin round connector of the pump the 2 large centre pins control the stop solenoid. I can't remember which way round they are but if you check the same connectors on the socket of the vehicle, it should tell you if power is getting there. If it wasn't 38 in the shade I'd connect a battery up to mine to see....maybe later...
I'd put money on the pump ECU hasn't got power or is unwilling to have a chat.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by xantia_v6 » 27 Jun 2019, 17:10

I think that you will find some pin numbers on the connectors if you look very carefully.

This diagram, borrowed from a Ford forum, gives some EPIC pin numbering:

Image

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by moizeau » 27 Jun 2019, 17:54

The round plug 'No. 2' is a different pin configuration, I'll have a look in the Epic manual, the others may be the same.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by moizeau » 27 Jun 2019, 18:06

Untitled.jpg
This is the pin out for the actual pump harness, not the vehicle harness. The stop solenoid is 12 and 13. The numbers are written on the plug.

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by wheeler » 28 Jun 2019, 16:46

martin churchill wrote:
27 Jun 2019, 11:49
Thanks everyone for the information. The ECU pins I do not have numbers on that so if anyone has a pin layout with numbers it would be appreciated.

The ECU plug will have pin numbers on them, they can be very small & difficult to see but they definitely will be there. Sometimes only the first pin of each row has an identifier pin number then you have to count along to work out the others.
As for the wire codes, they are printed every couple of inches along the length of the wire & again can be difficult to see, sometimes needing to peel tape back a bit.
can be seen here on this radio wiring at the top of the picture, may need to zoom in.
Attachments
20141123_120407_zpsffbd5847.jpg

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Re: Xantia 2.1TD 1997 - Keypad/immobiliser

Post by martin churchill » 02 Jul 2019, 20:53

I have now checked wires and connections from the injection pump to the ECU and all sensors all clean and as should be.
Under the rad is next, rad and inter cooler are out and engine bay cleaned . Question; Bolted to the ECU is another Ali box with 2 multi pin plugs. What is it?
I still cant get to the other side of the internal fuse box. How do I remove it?
Is the keypad connected to the alarm? It look like my alarm has been disconnected. I only have 1 key for the car [standard key]
Has anyone any idea were the keypad wires connect to the normal wiring loom? I have traced 1 wire to a blue box rear of the handbrake lever. what is it?
A plan of sensor and relay locations would be nice, if anyone has one.
I will keep you informed of my progress.