Replacing timing belt without water pump

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Erik WG
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Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Erik WG » 17 Jun 2019, 19:27

Good evening from Sweden!

My wife's just bought a 2007 Citroën C4 1.6 HDI, 110 bhp with 89 000 km on the meter. Lovely car, but there's one fly in the soup. The timing belt was replaced last year, but not by an authorized garage. The job was done by a reconditioning firm. They replaced the belt and wheels, but not the water pump :shock:

My questions are:

How long/how many miles will a water pump last? Is the water pump supposed to be replaced when doing the timing belt for the first time? Is the timing belt going to snap if the pumps stops working?

I would be most grateful for a response to this.

Have a nice evening,

Yours sincerely,
Erik Graver

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RichardW
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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by RichardW » 17 Jun 2019, 21:02

Welcome Erik

It's best practice to replace the water pump - often they start leaking soon after a timing belt change. How long it will last is a how long is a piece of string question.... As it's run low mileage, I'd be tempted to monitor it - any signs of noise or leakage, then get it replaced.

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by mickthemaverick » 17 Jun 2019, 21:22

Welcome Erik,
This is the place to get good advice and sensible suggestions (with the banter thrown in of course!)
I agree with Richard, the reality is you cannot know how long the water pump will be reliable. Personally I'd take it to an approved garage and have them replace the pump and the belt again. Then you know where you stand and you will have peace of mind with the warranted work. :)
Or you could play it by ear and hope for the best :-D :-D It all depends on what floats your boat!!
Good car choice and you will get great mpg. EnjoY :-D

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Paul-R
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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Paul-R » 17 Jun 2019, 21:31

I changed the belts at 75,000 miles on both the old Xsara and Mk1 C5 and then the belts and pump at 150,000 miles. Both were sold at over 200,000 miles without problem (with the engine at least!).

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by xantia_v6 » 17 Jun 2019, 22:07

I think that water pump failures on most engines are fairly random events, although I have known them to fail within a few weeks of a belt change, but I think that that is due to the belt tension being changed. If the water pump is behaving itself now, then it is very likely that it will still be in the same condition when the timing belt is next due for renewal.

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Erik WG » 17 Jun 2019, 22:26

RichardW wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 21:02
Welcome Erik

It's best practice to replace the water pump - often they start leaking soon after a timing belt change. How long it will last is a how long is a piece of string question.... As it's run low mileage, I'd be tempted to monitor it - any signs of noise or leakage, then get it replaced.


Thank you very much indeed! I've got a Citroën Mechanic who will do this for somewhere around 550 pounds. It's probably worth it.

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by GiveMeABreak » 17 Jun 2019, 23:57

Before you do that, I suggest you give Citroen a call, as over in the U.K. they do have fixed price repairs and e timing belt is one of those. You might be surprised at the price for the job. They usually offer 2 prices, one for genuine original parts and a cheaper price for Citroen approved equivalent parts.

The timing belt service does not include the water pump, it can be added on if desired.

I had mine done with the full kit, including the water pump and all the tensioner rollers and pulleys. I was originally told that they rarely have any issue with he water pumps these days, so didn’t do many of them. But while it’s off, probably better to do it for piece of mind.

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by doctle » 18 Jun 2019, 08:48

If it's going to fail it will fail on a bank holiday weekend usually a Saturday when you're miles from home or a garage,

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by moizeau » 18 Jun 2019, 09:24

I'd visually check for weeping. If OK do the next one early, around 200,000km. If it was changed last year and it isn't weeping the chances are it'll be fine (and it was changed early, presumably for age, not kms) , especially if the coolant is in good condition (check that). On XUD's I changed the pump every other belt, HDI's every time, but that is because the service intervals are greater.

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Paul-R
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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Paul-R » 18 Jun 2019, 09:30

The water pump gets a much easier time on the HDi engine compared to the XUD engine. On the XUD engine it's subject to the jolts from having to bring the high pressure pump up to max twice every revolution whereas on the HDi engines it runs all the time. There may be higher pressures involved but it's a regular routine.

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Bick » 18 Jun 2019, 09:52

xantia_v6 wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 22:07
I think that water pump failures on most engines are fairly random events, although I have known them to fail within a few weeks of a belt change, but I think that that is due to the belt tension being changed. If the water pump is behaving itself now, then it is very likely that it will still be in the same condition when the timing belt is next due for renewal.



What this member says ^^^

Usually if you are going to get a problem it will be within weeks of the belt change. Also the HDI water pumps seem to rarely fail. The old 1.9d pumps were known for failing if not changed with the cambelt but i had a Xantia with 250k on her with belt changes but still on the original pump, all the belts changed by me.

So i would not worry unless you start losing coolant and cant find where its going as it may be a leaking pump.

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Paul-R
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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Paul-R » 18 Jun 2019, 11:15

What I said about stress from the pumps is the biggest difference.

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Peter.N.
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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by Peter.N. » 18 Jun 2019, 11:45

I have changed a number of XUD and Hdi belts without the pump and only once have I had one fail, that said you don't really want to do it again if it does so I now change the pump as a matter of course.

Peter

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Re: Replacing timing belt without water pump

Post by JohnD » 18 Jun 2019, 14:18

Three of our family cars are coming up to the low mileage/10 year change time. The C5X7 will be a first-time change (63K) when pulleys and water pump will be done. The Saxo and Pug 306 I did in 2009 and on both, I just did the belt. This time they'll get a new pump as well.