Hi all,
Like several others on this board, I have upgraded my zx's front brakes to berlingo spec discs and calipers (also the same as 206 gti and a few others). The problem is that the brake pedal has lost 90% of the pedal feel. It is very difficult to modulate the brakes when you can't feel any resistance from the pedal, but seem to be stopping rapidly at the same time! Any one else experiencing this?
I beleive this may be a slight problem due to mis-matching the zx master cylinder and the berlingo calipers? any ideas?
I have tried bleeding, new pads etc, but to no avail. So I was wondering about modifying the pedal assembly itself to give more 'feel'. I am sure I read somewhere on this board that there is a spring on bx/xantia brake pedal assemblies put there in order to give a more 'real' feeling to the hydraulic brakes. So are the assemblies the same and could I try to use the xantia spring on my zx? Or even a stronger spring?
Cheers
Berlingo brake upgrade
Moderator: RichardW
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philhoward
The Xantia/BX brakes are completely different to the "normal" ZX/Berlingo ones; with the Berlingo/ZX your foot pressure moves the fluid to the brakes; on the hydro cars, all we do it let the high pressure LHM do the work for us!
That mod won't work, i'm afraid...
Is the pedal going down further or not as far as before? Either way, you're looking at a master cylinder change (probably to a ZX/206 one) to get the master/slave cylinder bore relationship right again.
That mod won't work, i'm afraid...
Is the pedal going down further or not as far as before? Either way, you're looking at a master cylinder change (probably to a ZX/206 one) to get the master/slave cylinder bore relationship right again.
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Jon
I'm working on this one at the moment, and will report back. The problem is that the ZX only has a 20.6mm master cylinder. I'm looking at a ZX Estate, or ZX with ABS master cylinder at 22.6mm to see if that makes any difference. Its also possible that a Berlingo master cylinder may fit onto the servo, I'll have to look at the pipe and fixing arrangements on our Berlingo and see how it compares to the ZX.
I'll post again soon if I come up with anything.
I'll post again soon if I come up with anything.
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Jon
Hi Jon, [:)] The only number I can find on my new master cylinder is 2403 stamped on the round end? (its a pretty rough casting and painted silver if thats any help) no other markings are visable. My mech said he thinks the problem he found was on stage two of the old one and he thinks he used a volcane cylinder as a replacement but cant really remember. As I always pay cash we cant look it up on an invoice either unfortunately.. [;)] [:I] [:D]
Hi,
Firstly, I have not accidentally upgraded to hydraulic system brakes ([B)]insulted).
Also, the problem is not that the master cylinder is too small, rather that it may be too BIG!!!
With the new discs and calipers, the braking effort being exerted on the discs by the pads is, well, superb, its just that there is no feel through the pedal at all, you cant 'feel' the work being done.
This may be due to a my zx having a larger diameter master cylinder than the brake calipers were designed for, giving more hydraulic pressure for less FOOT pressure - not the other way around!!!
Q. ARE ZX VOLCANE MASTER CYLINDERS BIGGER OR SMALLER THAN >2000 BERLINGO MASTER CYLINDER?
I would assume larger, and this is where the problem may lie (guessing).
The spring idea WILL work if you can find a spring to suit (ANY spring as long as it fits), but its just that nicking one off the xantia et al would be a darn sight easier.
____JAMES______
just an idea, check that no fluid got into the servo when you were changing the master cylinder as this causes the exact problem you mention, normal to soft pedal, give it a few pumps and it goes rock hard.
Thanks for replies.[:D]
Firstly, I have not accidentally upgraded to hydraulic system brakes ([B)]insulted).
Also, the problem is not that the master cylinder is too small, rather that it may be too BIG!!!
With the new discs and calipers, the braking effort being exerted on the discs by the pads is, well, superb, its just that there is no feel through the pedal at all, you cant 'feel' the work being done.
This may be due to a my zx having a larger diameter master cylinder than the brake calipers were designed for, giving more hydraulic pressure for less FOOT pressure - not the other way around!!!
Q. ARE ZX VOLCANE MASTER CYLINDERS BIGGER OR SMALLER THAN >2000 BERLINGO MASTER CYLINDER?
I would assume larger, and this is where the problem may lie (guessing).
The spring idea WILL work if you can find a spring to suit (ANY spring as long as it fits), but its just that nicking one off the xantia et al would be a darn sight easier.
____JAMES______
just an idea, check that no fluid got into the servo when you were changing the master cylinder as this causes the exact problem you mention, normal to soft pedal, give it a few pumps and it goes rock hard.
Thanks for replies.[:D]
Hi mrBump. My prob was free travel before any braking began.. one min it was about an inch, the next 3 inches, but the brakes worked fine once they moved! there was a nasty smell in the car every time they dropped 3 inches though!! [:I] lol.. Thanks for the tip.. [:)]
I think the Berlingo has a bigger master cylinder? and Jon said it was poss to get as small as 19mm in ZX sizes... [:)]
I think the Berlingo has a bigger master cylinder? and Jon said it was poss to get as small as 19mm in ZX sizes... [:)]
If youre swopping master cyls make sure they match as far as the length of the rod coming out of the servo is concerned. I swopped a 20mm zx for a ABS 22.6mm zx master cylider but also swopped the matching servo so the length stayed the same (if you see what I mean)Huge improvement, but you can lock them up.This info concerns standard zx volcane brakes ive no ideahow it would apply to the Berlingo conversion.