The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

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NewcastleFalcon
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The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Hits the mainstream news today, but trailed for a while, and probably always coming....

Any views?

If you want to catch up here's The Great Debate Number 34-TV4 or not TV4
Should there be a fourth television channel or not?
featuring
Rt Hon. Mr. Ian Throat MP Minister for Broadcasting
Sir Abe Saffenheim Programme controller for Amalgamated Money TV
Lord Kingwoody Shadow Spokesman for Television
Patrick Loon A Television Critic



REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 27 Mar 2019, 13:49, edited 2 times in total.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: The Great Debate-No 1-Speed Limiters

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I do NOT agree with the idea of a speed limiter. Part of my reasoning is that, what if you want to overtake a vehicle travelling at a low speed, and the limiter won't let you have enough speed to overtake safely?

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I agree with them but they will be tampered with by those who feel the need for speed.

Back in the fifties in REME we spent a lot of time fixing buggered up governors on the army Bedfords, they were governed by a balance spring setup in the carb linkage.

HGVs of course have had speed limiters (56mph) for years.

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Looks like the speed limiters will be "smart" speed limiters, and not just set a maximum speed but interactively control the max speed of the vehicle dependant on the actual speed limit of the road.
From the BBC here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415
"
What is speed limiting technology and how does it work?

Under the ISA system, cars receive information via GPS and a digital map, telling the vehicle what the speed limit is. This can be combined with a video camera capable of recognising road signs.

The system can be overridden temporarily. If a car is overtaking a lorry on a motorway and enters a lower speed-limit area, the driver can push down hard on the accelerator to complete the manoeuvre.

A full on/off switch for the system is also envisaged, but this would lapse every time the vehicle is restarted.
Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 27 Mar 2019, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Paul-R
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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters

Post by Paul-R »

Lordy, what a dreary future portends for us all. I'm sooooo glad I've done the majority of my driving in such relatively free times and that it's unlikely to affect me at all. I'm pretty sure that both of our current cars will see us through to the end of our driving lives.

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 10:21
I agree with them but they will be tampered with by those who feel the need for speed.

Back in the fifties in REME we spent a lot of time fixing buggered up governors on the army Bedfords, they were governed by a balance spring setup in the carb linkage.


The modern day tamperer will be tapping away at a computer or plugging in a supplementary "brain" rather than getting their hands dirty! :-D

REgards Neil

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Re: The Great Debate-No 1-Speed Limiters

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 09:15
....Part of my reasoning is that, what if you want to overtake a vehicle travelling at a low speed, and the limiter won't let you have enough speed to overtake safely?


My experience of driving a number of vans fitted with old school speed limiters, is that if you know you have one you adjust your judgement when driving so you dont attempt an overtaking if you know you havent got the required poke! Yes it is frustrating at times :-D .

Surprising that quite a lot of those vans have a speed limit of 50mph for the vehicle on single carriageway roads . Now that feels just too slow, but come the revolution, those vans will be tootling along at sedate compliant 50!

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 27 Mar 2019, 13:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Beam me up. At least your molecules will get a good scrambling in the process.
Beam.gif

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The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters and Black Boxes

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Slight change of title....as compulsory data recorders will also be part of the proposals, which may have more of a "big brother" implication than the speed limiters alone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415

"However, the new system as it's currently envisaged will not force drivers to slow down. It is there to encourage them to do so, and to make them aware of what the limit is, but it can be overridden. Much like the cruise control in many current cars will hold a particular speed, or prevent you exceeding it, until you stamp on the accelerator.

So it'll still be a free-for-all for speeding motorists then? Not quite. Under the new rules, cars will also be fitted with compulsory data recorders, or "black boxes".
Regards Neil

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by Homer »

Here's my thoughts.

HGVs have been speed limited to 56mph for a long time now and the result has been bored drivers finding something else to to like watch TV and crash into the back of stationary traffic. The human being has an acceptable level of risk/danger and if danger is reduced one way then it will compensate in another. The automatic anti collision systems have not exactly shown a stellar performance on self driving cars either. Partial automation has been shown to be worse than full automation because drivers switch off and can't react when it goes wrong.

One article compared the reduction in fatalities to that "seen" when seatbelts were made compulsory. The problem there is there really isn't any evidence of that. Partly because uptake of seatbelt wearing was a gradual thing. But also pedestrian deaths rose around the same time.

Then there's the myriad of unintended consequences.

Come 2023, if I am waiting to pull out of a junction and I see a brand new car coming down the road I don't have to give way because I know they will be restricted to the speed limit and their anti collision system will slam on the brakes, I get away scott free and they get bruised ribs from the unexpected deceleration.
Over riding the system will initially be possible by pressing hard on the accelerator so instead of a gentle squeeze and doing 5mph over the limit I have to nail it to the floor and do 20 over the limit.
Some people will drive on the limit all the time regardless of conditions.
You will have slower traffic but drivers will be paying less attention. I would rather have an attentive fast driver than a slow one rummaging around his glovebox.
When I'm cycling home I hit about 26mph, currently if someone wants to pass me they can do so safely by exceeding the limit by a few mph, with a limiter I will have them right up my behind or worse alongside for an age.

And finally who is going to trade their 3 yr old car for a new one which is worse? Bye bye motor industry.

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters and Black Boxes

Post by Homer »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
27 Mar 2019, 13:46
Slight change of title....as compulsory data recorders will also be part of the proposals, which may have more of a "big brother" implication than the speed limiters alone.


I suspect the headline grabbing stuff will be dropped and it's all a smokescreen to get this bit implemented.

But what have you got to worry about unless you are doing something wrong? Or the authorities suddenly decide that what you are doing is wrong.

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by Richard_C »

And finally who is going to trade their 3 yr old car for a new one which is worse?

Imagine, a 2CV thrashing down the outside lane of the Motorway at a heady 72mph passing all and sundry......

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by van ordinaire »

Yup, done that - enormous fun!

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by doctle »

I heard a guy from the AA on the radio talking about these limited cars earlier. He reckoned that you can go over the speed limit but there will be a very annoying sound in the car when you are going too fast. This would get you out of trouble when you have to accelerate. I agree with the OP that said a guy with a laptop will be able to disable the limiter/annoying buzzer but what's the betting that if you drive over the limit your car will report it to the authorities, insurance company etc?

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Re: The Great Debate-No 35-Speed Limiters & Black Boxes

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Thanks for joining in with the great debate, I would say that participation recently has been pretty slow on the FCF so the more threads that get people joining in the better as far as I am concerned.

We've had the "black box" already appearing particularly for young drivers to secure cheaper insurance premiums. Fleet managers use such technology to collect information on driving behaviour of their employees. Everyone uses scanning devices of some sort or another recording activity "on the job" times/ places etc. These in conjunction with your vehicle information virtually monitor every second of your working day.

Any old school should we say "time wasting activity" such as pulling over having a cup of coffee/reading the paper/ having a little snooze is all transparently available to management.

Not surprising that it was going to happen with private cars. With so many "sold" on leases and PCP terms the manufacturers would probably have made the "black box" element happen, even without compulsion from legislators.

Regards Neil