I have a Xantia 1.9D on a L plate.
I brought it cheap as there was a problem with the hydraulics. The feed pipe between the pump and accumulator had ruptured.
To be on the safe side I picked up another accumulator from a recent Tdi from the scrappy. New pipe and fluid. All seemed OK. (apart from the brakes usual hard soft problem) ticking every 20-30 secs for about 500 miles then (and it would be on the M25) pipe ruptured again. Blown out from the pump again leaving a snails trail of LHM up the M25.
Anyone got any idea why the pipe is blowing out. I am thinking of replacing the pump as it is a bit noisy but I can’t see this giving to much pressure.
I have search through this forum back quite a way and have not seen any postings with reference to this problem.
From a completely stumped Nik [B)]
Major pipe rupture
Moderator: RichardW
First of all :
It's the pump pressure bursting the pipe !
- which means the pump is doing what it's supposed to do : supplying pressure.
It's capable to deliver pressure in excess of 5000psi - if you can turn it !
The pump has absolutely NO pressure regulation itself - it supplies whatever pressure it can - in your case it means the pump is in good nick !
It's the RESTRICTION of the output pressure that then blows the pipe.
Since you only have that single pressure pipe from the pump - your Xantia L-reg would be a PRE-95 production model.
These have the FDV (flow divider valve) controlling the diversion of pump pressure between PR (pressure regulator) and the servosteering.
The FDV is known to play games with it's internal valves - restricting the pump pressure.
You picked up another accumulator ? - you mean the PR (the gassphere base unit) - or the gassphere itself ?
The gasspheres on any earlier Citroens have a predicted service life of approx 5 years - then they have lost too much of the precharged gas pressure to be functioning as thought.
Any second hand sphere would be a lottery - and they are only approx GBP20 brand new.
The PR & the FDV works in close cooperation - that's why they are interconnected - and it's often anticipated the PR is at fault - when it is in fact the FDV.
The PR is by far the most reliable hydraulic component - it's the same design & function since the 50'es - very well known.
The FDV is a much later design from the 80'es - known from BX'es with servosteering - and have been the cause to much grief for BX owners.
my suggestions are :
1) Assure the accumulator gassphere (the one on front of engine block) is a brand new unit.
2) Replace the FDV unit. It's a square(ish) device with 5 rigid pipes connected - 2 of the pipes runing to the PR. The FDV is also the device which receives the pump pressure pipe.
3) Keep your replaced PR (if it was this unit) - as it's more than likely in good nick.
It MAY in fact be a problem with the piping wrongly connected (mixed up) after a repair/replacement. This is known to restrict the pump pressure to pipe bursting level.
This picture shows schematic & connections on FDV :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/bxser/rizeni_2.gif
- and here you have the interconnections in schematic form :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/bxser/rizeni_3.gif
YES - I know it's for the BX - but this type servosteering is EXACTLY the same on earlier Xantiae.
Feel free to investigate more info found on the main URL :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/
It's the pump pressure bursting the pipe !
- which means the pump is doing what it's supposed to do : supplying pressure.
It's capable to deliver pressure in excess of 5000psi - if you can turn it !
The pump has absolutely NO pressure regulation itself - it supplies whatever pressure it can - in your case it means the pump is in good nick !
It's the RESTRICTION of the output pressure that then blows the pipe.
Since you only have that single pressure pipe from the pump - your Xantia L-reg would be a PRE-95 production model.
These have the FDV (flow divider valve) controlling the diversion of pump pressure between PR (pressure regulator) and the servosteering.
The FDV is known to play games with it's internal valves - restricting the pump pressure.
You picked up another accumulator ? - you mean the PR (the gassphere base unit) - or the gassphere itself ?
The gasspheres on any earlier Citroens have a predicted service life of approx 5 years - then they have lost too much of the precharged gas pressure to be functioning as thought.
Any second hand sphere would be a lottery - and they are only approx GBP20 brand new.
The PR & the FDV works in close cooperation - that's why they are interconnected - and it's often anticipated the PR is at fault - when it is in fact the FDV.
The PR is by far the most reliable hydraulic component - it's the same design & function since the 50'es - very well known.
The FDV is a much later design from the 80'es - known from BX'es with servosteering - and have been the cause to much grief for BX owners.
my suggestions are :
1) Assure the accumulator gassphere (the one on front of engine block) is a brand new unit.
2) Replace the FDV unit. It's a square(ish) device with 5 rigid pipes connected - 2 of the pipes runing to the PR. The FDV is also the device which receives the pump pressure pipe.
3) Keep your replaced PR (if it was this unit) - as it's more than likely in good nick.
It MAY in fact be a problem with the piping wrongly connected (mixed up) after a repair/replacement. This is known to restrict the pump pressure to pipe bursting level.
This picture shows schematic & connections on FDV :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/bxser/rizeni_2.gif
- and here you have the interconnections in schematic form :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/bxser/rizeni_3.gif
YES - I know it's for the BX - but this type servosteering is EXACTLY the same on earlier Xantiae.
Feel free to investigate more info found on the main URL :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/
NO - NO -
It means that my first answer is a load of s***e then [:o)]
If you have a <font color="red"><i>pump with 2 rigid</i></font id="red"> (steel !) pipes - then you have the later servo steering setup - no FDV.
My fault we ended here - wasting your time - as I <font color="red"><i>SHOULD</i></font id="red"> have asked you first off wether the pump fitted had the single or 2 pipes fitted. I know too d... well that models around the 94/95 production year may have either system fitted.
I'm truly sorry about that Nik [:(]
To get back on track :
The restriction bursting the pipe is then caused by abnormality in the PR - and then most likely a flat accumulator sphere.
The acc sphere not only acts as an accumulated pressure reserve - but it also dampens the rapid change in pressure when the PR valves changes state.
These rapid pressure changes are known to cause minor shock waves in pressure - then bursting the pipe.
This happens when the acc sphere is flat.
It means that my first answer is a load of s***e then [:o)]
If you have a <font color="red"><i>pump with 2 rigid</i></font id="red"> (steel !) pipes - then you have the later servo steering setup - no FDV.
My fault we ended here - wasting your time - as I <font color="red"><i>SHOULD</i></font id="red"> have asked you first off wether the pump fitted had the single or 2 pipes fitted. I know too d... well that models around the 94/95 production year may have either system fitted.
I'm truly sorry about that Nik [:(]
To get back on track :
The restriction bursting the pipe is then caused by abnormality in the PR - and then most likely a flat accumulator sphere.
The acc sphere not only acts as an accumulated pressure reserve - but it also dampens the rapid change in pressure when the PR valves changes state.
These rapid pressure changes are known to cause minor shock waves in pressure - then bursting the pipe.
This happens when the acc sphere is flat.
It's not common - but a known problem the pipe breaks up.
But it's VERY common to find a flat accumulator gassphere - and this causes all kinds of strange symptoms.
As this pipe has been replaced a couple of times - and the fact a diesel engine has quite some vibrations - it's imperative the pipe is fixed with all retainers (original) fitted.
To replace this pipe - you first ensure it fits precisely in the pipe ports both ends - then you (careful !) bend it slightly & softly to exactly match the retainers fixing holes.
The pipe must not be allowed to vibrate - or be under strain - when fitted.
But it's VERY common to find a flat accumulator gassphere - and this causes all kinds of strange symptoms.
As this pipe has been replaced a couple of times - and the fact a diesel engine has quite some vibrations - it's imperative the pipe is fixed with all retainers (original) fitted.
To replace this pipe - you first ensure it fits precisely in the pipe ports both ends - then you (careful !) bend it slightly & softly to exactly match the retainers fixing holes.
The pipe must not be allowed to vibrate - or be under strain - when fitted.
I have checked under the bonnet but there are no clips at all. Both pipes from the pump are only held via the pump fittings. I presume these clips are not avaliable as spares.
Also anyone know the best way to clean LHM from under the bonnet. I don't think there is anything that was'nt soaked in it. Looks a right mess and surly can't be good for the electrics???!!
Also anyone know the best way to clean LHM from under the bonnet. I don't think there is anything that was'nt soaked in it. Looks a right mess and surly can't be good for the electrics???!!
A visit to the breakers is the easy option to get these pipe retainers.
As for the LHM oil-mess : leave it !
The oil will in fact preserve against corrosion - any cleaning involving hosing down with water means inducing corrosion problems to the electrics !
Wipe off with rags where you don't want to see it.
As for the LHM oil-mess : leave it !
The oil will in fact preserve against corrosion - any cleaning involving hosing down with water means inducing corrosion problems to the electrics !
Wipe off with rags where you don't want to see it.