Engine Oil for an older engine

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dave_xsara
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Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by dave_xsara »

Hi,

I thought I read a thread on here which I can no longer find about what grade of oil to put into older engines. I can't remember the specifics, but there was debate about whether to continue with the manufacturers recommended grade or to switch the grade - in what way I cannot remember.

Was this on here?


Thanks.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Download the mechanics handbook that I posted, for the Xsara 2001, see page 44 onwards - there is plenty on the recommended oils - and some notes about which oils NOT to use for the pre-2001 models.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 78#p590278
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van ordinaire
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by van ordinaire »

That's not the problem, the problem is that oil evolves &, often, what was recommended isn't always still available. I though "classic" 20/50 was jusyt exploitation of those into classic cars - then I learned of backward compatibility & that the latest version/equivalent of that originally recommended isn't, necessarily the best,or even good, for the engine in question.

I do recall my blog went off at a, protracted, tangent on this subject [in '17(?)]- but that was specifically in connection with gear oil.
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by GiveMeABreak »

All the specifications are there in the handbook for this engine specifically. As long as it meets those standards it will be fine.
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Oils now are unbelievably thin compared to the older stuff, I recall single grade engine oils of 20 30 40 and 50 grade in my youth, worn engines, oil burners, used to up the grade to reduce the consumption, so much so that they wouldn't turn over to start on cold days.

When detergent oils (BP Visco-static etc.) arrived those engines fell to pieces because they were mostly held together with sludge, the detergent took the sludge out and they rattled to death.

Duckhams 20/50 became the go to product for the oil burners and remained so for a very long time.
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by Peter.N. »

Providing it meets the basic specification I have always found it to be OK, I use the cheapest oil I can get. I am using the same oil in the 406 common rail diesel as I used in the CX diesel, it meets the basic spec and as the 406 doesn't have a particulate filter you don't need low ash.

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white exec
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by white exec »

Back in the late 60s, an uncle of mine was involved with military, police and emergency service fleet vehicles. They had tested the newly available and well-priced Duckhams Q20W/50, and were impressed with it, both from the point of view of protection and consumption. I used it from then on, and it slashed oil consumption on several cars previously running the popular Castrol GTX.

Duckhams was, I think, taken over by BP a long time ago, but the brand continued. In the UK, I used 20W/50 in many cars (Duckhams, and then Esso diesel spec) and it always behaved itself. Our BX19RD got its head replaced at 177k miles, and there was no discernable bore or cam wear.

Am still running our two (RAV4 D4D and XM 2.5TD) on diesel spec Repsol 20W/50, here in Spain. 20W/50 is listed as acceptable grade for both of these engines, and a switch away from a thin oil proved necessary for the Toyota, which would produce an annoying hydraulic tappet chatter at exactly 2000rpm. On 20W/50, it is clatter-free, and as quiet as a Toyota diesel can be expected to be - in other words, quite agricultural next to the XUD-generation of silky-smooth Citroen-Peugeot units.
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myglaren
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by myglaren »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 12:15
Oils now are unbelievably thin compared to the older stuff, I recall single grade engine oils of 20 30 40 and 50 grade in my youth, worn engines, oil burners, used to up the grade to reduce the consumption, so much so that they wouldn't turn over to start on cold days.

When detergent oils (BP Visco-static etc.) arrived those engines fell to pieces because they were mostly held together with sludge, the detergent took the sludge out and they rattled to death.

Duckhams 20/50 became the go to product for the oil burners and remained so for a very long time.


I wonder if it is possible to use a modern oil as close in spec to the original and add STP.
STP wrote:Motor oils are carefully formulated lubricants that perform many important functions, including cooling engine parts, keeping them clean, and protecting them against rust, corrosion, and wear. One of the most important functions of oil is providing lubrication by forming a cushion between moving parts to help them slide more easily. This reduces metal-to-metal contact and friction — a major contributor to heat, wear, and premature aging of engine parts. STP® Oil Treatment fights this metal-to-metal friction by providing a thicker cushion of oil between moving engine parts, thus helping to protect against engine wear.
Also:
STP wrote: Why does STP® make two different oil treatments? What are their differences?
There are two separate and distinct STP® Oil Treatment products:

STP® Oil Treatment (in the blue bottle) helps protect against engine wear with a high-viscosity formula, which fights metal-to-metal friction by providing a thicker cushion of oil between moving engine parts. It can be used in all cars, trucks and SUVs.

STP® 4-Cylinder Oil Treatment (in the red bottle) also helps protect against engine wear by increasing oil viscosity, which provides a thicker cushion of oil between moving engine parts and reduces metal-to-metal friction. It counteracts oil thinning and also contains additives to boost motor oil’s anti-wear protection. This product is optimized for 4-cylinder engines
.
In days gone by I was an STP-oholic and would bung it, or Molyslip, in at every oil change.

I have no idea if it ever did any good but it was as thick as treacle and supposedly coated all moving parts with a layer of tough lubrication that aided friction reduction when starting from cold and when the oil had drained from the galleries.

I have no evidence that it ever did any good but equally none that it did any harm.

I think that Wynns have a similar product but have never used that.
Last edited by myglaren on 02 Jan 2019, 13:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Stuff I missed earlier.
Peter.N.
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by Peter.N. »

My experience has show that cheap oil is OK providing it is changed regularly, generally more often than recommended. One of my CX turbo Diesels I personally covered 160K miles in on cheap oil, total was over well 200k. Al my XM's I ran on cheap oil and a couple of those had done nearly 300k. Same with the 406 hdi's, the one we are running now is at over 220k and still going up.

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Michel
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by Michel »

All the 2.0HDis I've had have run on Asda's own brand 10W/40 Semi-synthetic, for many hundreds of thousands of miles, with no ill effects. It's made by Comma, who also make all Halfords oils..

As the saying goes, "any oil is better than no oil"..
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van ordinaire
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by van ordinaire »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 19:23
All the specifications are there in the handbook for this engine specifically. As long as it meets those standards it will be fine.


But Marc, you're missing the point: currently available oils (very expensive specialist products excepted) don't meet the original standards, they meet later ones, which everyone assumes, therefore, are higher/better - which they probably are BUT that doesn't necessarily mean they are good for older engines.

Surprised that public sector fleet operators were wasting money on green dye - when Duckhams Fleetline 20/50 was available specially for them. My father's works car club used to get it in in 20 (25?) gallon drums for its members. b-t-w, Q20/50's been re-launched (along with straight 20 & 30 SAE) as the "Collector's Edition"

I always thought Asda's own was expensive for what it was (I ran the Cherokees on Lidl's finest, as & when it was available - always got an extra 5ls - but, it seems, no more) although I might reassess that now I know whose it is - although they only seem to do litres now - BUT it makes Halford's outrageous prices even more difficult to stomach, much less understand.

The C15's been run on Aucan's own 15/40 Diesel almost exclusively, whereas the Xantia'll be treated to Gulf semi-synthetic 10/40 - but only because it's the cheapest I could find, & it's due for an oil change before venturing abroad for the 1st time (in my ownership)
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Hell Razor5543
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Asda do their own oil in 5l cans as well (I know, I have two of them in the boot of my car), and every so often they do them with quite a discount (£14 instead of £21, IIRC). They also have a car checker SMS system, in that if you enter the reg and send it to the text number it will reply with the (Asda) oil that is most suitable.
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moizeau
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by moizeau »

The BX and the 406 run on Ecauto 10/40 semi, as well as all my mowers (I have 5)
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by GiveMeABreak »

van ordinaire wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 23:53
GiveMeABreak wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 19:23
All the specifications are there in the handbook for this engine specifically. As long as it meets those standards it will be fine.
But Marc, you're missing the point: currently available oils (very expensive specialist products excepted) don't meet the original standards, they meet later ones, which everyone assumes, therefore, are higher/better - which they probably are BUT that doesn't necessarily mean they are good for older engines.

No - not missing the point Van, just answering the question:

He has a 14th December 2000 build car.
It is a DW10TD Engine
The mechanics handbook I referred to states:
Old Standards (Oils specifically for diesel engines, permitting fuel economy) and from build date 2001>
ACEA Norm: B3-98 or B1-98
API Norm: CF or CF /EC

Recommendation is: TOTAL® QUARTZ 7000 ENERGY 10W40, which is still produced and has been enhanced (see below) and still meets the old standards and is currently on sale. There are of course other equivalents of oils. Must be Semi Synthetic or Synthetic. But most of these have an equivalent now.

The newer PSA B71 2294 Citroën engine oil specification was introduced in 2009. Main specification: ACEA A3/B4 with additional Peugeot-Citroen tests, so still maintains backwards compatibility with the original recommended oils.
dave_xsara
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Re: Engine Oil for an older engine

Post by dave_xsara »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
01 Jan 2019, 16:21
Download the mechanics handbook that I posted, for the Xsara 2001, see page 44 onwards - there is plenty on the recommended oils - and some notes about which oils NOT to use for the pre-2001 models.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 78#p590278


Apologies - just realised that this was a sticky at the top of the forum. :oops: