Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

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Brokeit
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Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

I have a 2009 Citroen dispatch 1.6L, (Peugeot 1.6 HDi engine I believe) bought about 6 months ago and I have reason to suspect mechanically neglected by previous owner for the last few years. It has about 135000 miles on the clock.

I was driving home from work the other week, having just topped up fuel from empty when the van spontaneously stalled whilst travelling at about 50mph downhill. Engine management light came on, and a warning on info screen read “anti pollution system fault”. The engine started ok a few minutes later, and I managed to hobble home the last few miles with a couple of unprovoked stalls along the way. A bit of preliminary online reading that night prompted me to change the fuel filter, which initially seemed to fix the problem for about 150 miles. (Also swapped rocker cover gasket at the same time which was leaking)

Unfortunately however, the problem has now come back with a vengeance. Driving home again last week and again an unprovoked stall. Reluctantly I got the van to limp home the last few miles- after each stall, the engine would restart without any issue. I realised on this occasion that the engine seemed to run ok at >2000 rpm, but dropping any lower tended to cause it to stall, as would down-shifting to control speed downhill.

OBD codes read as follows (first two codes appear twice on my reader)
P1586 throttle control module - bad position
P1351 glow plug/ heater malfunction - relay driven and plug not supplied
P0704 clutch switch input - circuit malfunction

The fact the issue is only occurring at the revs <2000 makes me wonder if there is a electical/ sensor (maybe TDC?). Of note, I did also notice that the pipes supplying turbo have a bit of oil sat in them, but a bit of reading elsewhere seems this is not an uncommon issue with these engines. Air filter and oil and oil filter were changed when I purchased van about 5000 miles ago.

Any ideas what I should be looking at? It seems this is a popular engine, with several common fualts. EGR and turbo are both concerns I have. I am familiar with and happy fixing previous petrol cars, but have very limited experience of Diesel engines.

Am thoughts much appreciated!
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Can you pop your VIN up (it will be automatically masked) so I can get the correct engine and ECU.
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

Thanks, VIN is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so here's the explanations of the codes, symptoms & suspect areas:

But I would start with getting your battery checked as in the case of the main faults, it seems that the supply voltage is low to all 3 systems, then get the clutch switch checked out as these could be related.

You have the DISPATCH III SHORT PANEL VAN H1 TYPE 10 1.6 HDi 90 (DV6UTED4) Manual gearbox 5

Fault codeP1586
After sales description of the fault code5 V sensor supply (N°3) for the rail pressure sensor, air flow sensor and EGR valve repeat : Supply voltage too low
Description of the diagnosticsThe supply common to the pressure sensor of the fuel high pressure common injection rail, to the flowmeter and to the EGR valve copy is lower than 4,7 V for 150 ms
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsConsult the associated contexts for the Pcode forwarding conditions
Conditions of disappearance of the faultIgnition on
Down-grade modes if fault presentDefault value for the air flow as a function of the engine speed and of the flow injected
Inhibiting of the diagnostics and air flow sensor plausibility
Use of the flow calculated
Cut of all the actuators: Motorised exhaust gas recycling valve (Turbocharger air cooler); Exhaust gas recycling valve; Bypass valve (Intake air heater ) In all operating modes
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning messageWarning lamp MIL
Main customer complaints likelyJerking/stalling
Lack of power
Starting problem
Suspect areasThe sensors sharing the power supply are as follows
Electrical harness
Connector
Engine management ECU (internal failure, supply, ...)

Fault codeP1351
After sales description of the fault codePre-heating relay circuit : Coherence ; Relay supplied and glow plugs not supplied
Description of the diagnosticsThe information from the preheating control unit indicates that the relay is open even though the ECU commands the closing of the relay for 2 seconds
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsConsult the associated contexts for the Pcode forwarding conditions
Conditions of disappearance of the faultIgnition on
Down-grade modes if fault present-
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message-
Main customer complaints likelyLack of power
Noise
Jerking/stalling
Starting problem
Suspect areasPre-heater plug
Electrical harness
Pre/post heating relay

Fault codeP0704
After sales description of the fault codeClutch switch signal : No signal or signal not coherent
Description of the diagnosticsThe clutch switch signal is not coherent in relation to the gear information or the signal does not change ; The fault is returned after 20 minutes
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsConsult the associated contexts for the Pcode forwarding conditions
Conditions of disappearance of the faultIgnition switched on
Down-grade modes if fault presentCutting of cruise control
Change to "easy move" torque invalid (Deactivation of the automatic mode of the electrically controlled parking brake)
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message-
Main customer complaints likelyJerking/stalling
Starting problem
Suspect areasClutch pedal
Electrical harness
Connector
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

Thanks, all very helpful.

Interesting point about battery actually; multimeter reads ~11.4V with headlights on, which Haynes manual says indicates time for a new battery so that's on order now. As it happens, I had some trouble with priming the fuel line after filter change (just didn't realise how much pumping was required!) so charged battery for a full 24 hours at that time in case I'd drained battery with the fuel pump/ ignition. Perhaps that re-juice was just enough to put symptoms on hold for as long as it did. Clutch switch on order as I've found online for £10 so will change at the same time.

Off on holiday from Monday so will fit both on my return and let you know what joy I have.

Thanks for help!
Tom
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No worries, I take it that 11.4V was without the engine running, or I'd be concerned that alternator wasn't charging it :-D
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

Thanks for help @GiveMeABreak.

Swapped battery on return from holiday (yes 11.4v was without engine running!), and was planning to report 2 weeks of faultless driving, until problem recurred at the end of last week. :evil: At this time I was yet to change clutch position switch, which only arrived last week.

Interestingly, the same conditions of the failure did not apply this time around; the engine cut out three times whilst out driving, but not at lower revs like before, and ran for approximately 10 miles between stalls. Couldn't see any pattern between when they were happening.

Battery check now reads 12.5-12.7v with engine off, and 14.7v with engine running. I know the latter is a bit high, could over-powering from alternator be a problem here? No blown fuses elsewhere in the van that I'm aware of though.

Issues with OBD reader means I've not been able to clear fault codes yet, but will sort asap to try and give some more info before another test drive. Planning to give it another test tonight now the clutch switch is changed.

Presumably next step is to clear codes, test drive, and see what comes up if the fault arises again?
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

14.7 V is perfectly normal when the battery is being charged by the alternator (engine running). That's exactly what is should be.

So now that you have been for a drive, it will of given the engine ECU time to adjust to the new sensor readings now that the low power issue has been resolved. You just need to read, make a note of faults, then clear them, go for another drive and then let us know if you are showing any new faults, then at lease we will be dealing with in light of a new battery and that should eliminate all the irrelevant ones.
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

So once again, after 250 miles of painless driving, the problem recurred the other day, driving along just fine then spontaneously stalling- no apparent provocation. (To recap, this is having changed battery and clutch position sensor)

I pulled over and ran another diagnostics check (having previously cleared the above codes). This time, codes (very similar) as follows:

P1587-27 throttle control module - circuit high [also, as a separate code P1587 without suffix]
P1351-28 glow plug/ heater malfunction - relay driven and plug not supplied [also, as a separate code P1351 without suffix]
P0704-1C clutch switch input - circuit malfunction

So the codes are very similar to before, the difference being I am now getting P1587 (previously P1586), and they all have suffixes. Does this improve their diagnostic value?

Help so far has been very gratefully received. If you have any wisdom with the above codes, and suggestions for next steps, I'd be much obliged!
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

Anybody have any ideas on this one? Personally wondering if ECU could be a suspect here?
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by 31mev »

Hi
i have just had an resolved a similar problem I will stick up my posting link. Basically stalling, unable to restart P1586 P1351 and another re brake switch. Depollution fault also showing on dash. Have a read, ignore stuff about dash lights that was another issue.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62000
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Brokeit wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 07:58
Anybody have any ideas on this one? Personally wondering if ECU could be a suspect here?
I’ll take a look shortly at these new codes.

@31MEV: Apart from the glowplug code, this will likely be a different problem to your vehicle as he has specific fault codes that you didn’t.

Once I get these listed we can see if there is a common pattern for further investigation.
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by 31mev »

You are of course correct I only had 1586 and 1351 couldnt possibly be the same.....I watch with interest. learning as I go!
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So all the codes are identical as the previous ones except for one addition: P1587

Click image to Zoom
Table.PNG
So where the P1586 is saying the rail pressure sensor supply is too low. P1587 is saying the supply is too high. That's the only difference.

So you can see the suspect areas of these two faults point to the electrical harness, the connector or the ECU and the P0704 to the clutch switch.

The Clutch switch is cheap enough to replace - a genuine one here for £10:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Genuine-Peugeo ... 1115560229

I would start with replacing that first and see of that removes that fault code.

It's item 19 in the diagram:
Dispatch Clutch Switch.PNG
As for the other faults, it can relate to the rail pressure sensor, the EGR or the Air Flow Sensor (MAF). I have seen fault P1586 cured by replacement of the EGR valve:

See this post - the last few posts confirm this:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34404&start=15

So if you have a Lexia, get it looking at some live data around the EGR valve - so some actuator tests to see if the EGR valve opens and closes as it should.

You don't want to be replacing parts willy nilly, so I would start there. Getting some live data and testing some components is always going to help point you in the right direction - as the codes alone can be dependent upon several sensor inputs. Narrowing it down is the challenge and process of elimination needs to be the way to go.
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Re: Citroen Dispatch - anti pollution system error

Post by Brokeit »

This is really helpful, thanks a lot for input.

I had actually already replaced the clutch switch, but the trouble code associated (P0704-1C) persists. Notably though, this does not appear in the "last trouble codes" section, which is where the remaining codes can be found.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Lexia. Looking online you can find for about £50, although I'm not sure I have the expertise required to use this to successfully diagnose the issue. (I also have a mac, which may be problematic- I suspect software is only for PC!)

Shopping around, it seems that I can get aftermarket/ reclaimed EGR valve, rail pressure sensor and MAF sensor for a little over £100 all together. Given the money I save doing this myself instead of handing to a garage, I'd be happy to try these fixes myself all in one go, and accept the loss if no joy.

Do you think this is a worthwhile endeavour? Or am I better off taking to a garage for Lexia diagnostics?

Thanks again, Tom