Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

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white exec
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Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by white exec »

For some time now I've been asking the question 'How much of their driving time do Toyota hybrids - particularly the Prius - actually spend running on battery, as opposed to their petrol engine?' Toyota continue to be silent on this, for reasons (I think) that were obvious from Day 1, given the size of the vehicle's battery pack.

Well, the hybrid cat is at last coming out of the bag, and Toyota in particular are not happy about it...

BBC reports today that numerous PHEV (petrol-hybrid plug-in vehicles) have never had their batteries electrically recharged from the grid. It appears that, for tax-advantage reasons, companies (in particular) have been acquiring these vehicles, even though they know much of their mileage will be non-urban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46152853

And, essentially applying the logic (and the physics) of what petrol hybrids are doing, when it comes to Toll charge reductions, it's good to see some commonsense being rolled out in Ireland...
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/201 ... ns-scheme/.

Hopefully, TfL will come to its senses as well over the exemptions currently being given to PHEV cars in London Congestion Zone.

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Fake Concern
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by Fake Concern »

How can having two engines be a good thing for the environment? In my opinion, if it looks wrong, then it is wrong.

Gibbo2286
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

There seems to be a large measure of stupidity by the users here, why would they not take advantage of the purchase price subsidy and the cheap electric running costs even for say just a third of the time.

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white exec
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by white exec »

Good question.
In the case of company car drivers, maybe: (a) no motivation, (b) lack of company oversight or commitment.
My guess is that a good few companies simply saw these vehicles simply as a way of getting round urban and other charges and restrictions.
Promotion by the manufacturers probably operated along similar lines, while paying lip-service to green concerns.
At least the Chinese government were more sensible, and told Toyota they didn't see their small-battery hybrids making any meaningful contribution to solving their urban air problem!

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 10:39
There seems to be a large measure of stupidity by the users here, why would they not take advantage of the purchase price subsidy and the cheap electric running costs even for say just a third of the time.


In my meanderings I did try to look up the electric only range of a Lexus Hybrid.....

Couldn't find it!

..and the reason may be hinted at here......Its difficult to drive these vehicles in electric only mode. Above a very low speed they automatically deactivate electric only mode. Basically they are only on electric power in stop start mode in urban traffic. Presumably these hybrids bought by business fleets spend most of their time on motorways and the like driving themselves to pointless meetings, seminars, away days, team-building exercises, training events and conferences!

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 10 Nov 2018, 11:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Talking bout subsidies and tax advantages - I'm firmly of the opinion that in the case of road tax, ALL vehicles should pay their share if using public roads. The roads are in such a poor state of repair, some are really unusable. Having zero or low £30 annual road tax is ridiculous, while it goes up every year for the rest of us. I watched the budget and the commitment to spend all the road tax on the roads, but that is not going to do all the time millions are not paying any road tax, but are still using the roads. Totally unfair, unsustainable and unjustifiable.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by white exec »

Just to say again, potholes here are pretty much unknown, and the few which do occur are repaired ONCE, and that's it. This applies to areas subjected to high levels of sun, rain and cold, as well.
The tarmac industry in the UK have some serious questions to answer on this one.

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Paul-R
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by Paul-R »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 10:39
There seems to be a large measure of stupidity by the users here, why would they not take advantage of the purchase price subsidy and the cheap electric running costs even for say just a third of the time.
If you plug it in at home you'd be paying for the electricity yourself; fill up at a petrol station and your employer pays for it.

Now you might say that, unless you have a business credit card, you would have to claim back for fuel and could also do the same for electricity but consider how much easier it is to just put in your petrol receipts rather than having to portion out your electricity bill.

Ultimately it's the easier option for the driver.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by EDC5 »

I agree on the road tax point. Road tax should be calculated based on weight or vehicle divided by the contact area of the tyre on the road. It’s the only fair way!

Personally I don’t see the problem with PHEVs, around town they’re great as there’s no pollution and once you’re on the open road where pollution isn’t an issue, the petrol engine can fire up.

The extra weight isn’t an issue as the electric motor can assist reaching cruising speed, and, once cruising, the extra weight has a negligible effect on MPG.

Also people overlook the regenerative braking aspect. Every time you press on the brakes that heat is lost, not so for the PHEV as it can recover the long motorway exit slip braking for a few hundred meters of zero emission town driving.

I don’t buy the ‘green’ aspect to a PHEV at all.. but as a proposition, it seems a good’un.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by white exec »

All hinges on the battery capacity. If tiny, then in urban areas the battery will only be able to provide for very short journeys. Some PHEVs have come out badly on this one, eg Mitsi's Outlander PHEV, where what is being offered is essentially a petrol vehicle, dressed up to pretend it's electric.

Good point about the relative ease of claiming back expenditure on filling-station fuel rather than home-based electrical energy. The latter would presumably need some form of separate metering/record. Not beyond manufacturer wit to do this, but I wonder how many companies actually care? This particular bullet will have to be bitten at some point, as all-electric vehicles become the norm.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Busy here this morning. :) came back to make a reply and got this:
General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]

Too many connections [1040]

An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.

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myglaren
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by myglaren »

^ It was a bit slow for me earlier but seems fine now.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I just wanted to say that in my experience fleet managers would want to squeeze every last penny out of their fleet use so not taking best advantage of the available electric portion seems stupid.

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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 11:53
Busy here this morning. :) came back to make a reply and got this:
General Error
SQL ERROR [ mysqli ]

Too many connections [1040]

An sql error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact an administrator if this problem persists.
Fixed now, I think the server needed a few changes, so a brief period of disruption.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Hybrid cars finally rumbled?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

EDC5 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 11:40
Also people overlook the regenerative braking aspect. Every time you press on the brakes that heat is lost, not so for the PHEV as it can recover the long motorway exit slip braking for a few hundred meters of zero emission town driving.

I don’t buy the ‘green’ aspect to a PHEV at all.. but as a proposition, it seems a good’un.
Don't forget we've got regenerative braking on all the PSA Stop Start vehicles already - but it's only used to recharge the capacitor for the engine restarting. No good for 'The Sweeney' or a bank robber though :lol: