2009 X7 exclusive - suspension?

[rmunns]

Lately I've noticed some changes in behaviour of the hydractive III+ system. Car has done 227 000km (142 000miles, say) and I have had it 3 years, adding about 20 000miles.
No real problems with suspension, but increasingly I feel there are changes happening. First, on entering the car the hydraulic pump now runs for much longer than it did. Maybe now 30 secs as against 5 secs and it seems to have got longer quite quickly - in the last month.
I live on a poorly made 'chemin' (lane) and am now getting more of a clunky feel from the suspension than I did. On normal roads it is not as 'magic carpet' as it was.
The car has little in the way of service records, so I have no idea about fluid changes or whether the spheres have ever been changed.
I have just checked the fluid level; while the level is correct (between 'A' and 'B' when in lowest position) the fluid did look a bit mucky.
The car is a late 2009, C5 Tourer, automatic, exclusive 160hp. What spheres should it have and do people think they ought all to be changed, or are there tests I could do to check which ones, if any, need replacing?
If it's recommended to change the fluid and some/all of the spheres, is this a D-I-Y job? I do not have access to a Lexia.

[EDC5]

Just a pet theory of mine, but have you noticed the front is now higher than it was before?

On my car, as the electronic height adjuster has aged the front sat higher than it should giving a harder ride. I’ve since corrected the height as much as possible in software pending replacement of the height corrector itself.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Roger

The ride can fluctuate - there are good days and bad days - I have them in mine. And just to be clear I'm on just over 70k miles! I have already had both height correctors replaced and a front strut, add to that 3 steering racks and one rear suspension pipe - so I know my fluid is as good as new considering all the LDS that has been replaced over the course of these operations!

I would not expect the spheres to be honest, although you have double the mileage, they are the new type on the X7 which almost eliminates any nitrogen escape from the membranes. And of course these cannot be re-gassed.

I would perhaps consider changing the LDS fluid - because if that is original it's probably outlived its duty cycle as a first start. Do some Citroebics a few times to get the fluid circulating and then depressurise and drain.

Although you can depressurise each axle manually without a Lexia, it is not the same as a complete system wide depressuriation and of course Diagbox / Lexia makes it very easy to do without all the hassle of manually undoing the valves and getting underneath the car and all that.

The fluid should be properly drained from the tank, so will require the right hand wheel arch cover to be removed to access the relevant pipes.

If you are considering I'll post up the procedure - let me know. But if it is on the original fluid I certainly think it should be changed for some nice new blood.

[Sloppysod]

Hi Roger - Please ignore this post.
Marc & others, When I done a fluid change on my XM......many years ago........ I flushed the system out with Paraffin, is this something that can be used with LDS or is there a specialist flushing fluid available?. Reading the Drain & Refill procedure there is no mention of it.
I am thinking even if the system is dirty, just replacing the fluid will help but it will still not be perfect.

[Hell Razor5543]

For LHM systems you can het hold of Hydraflush (properly called "hydraurincage"), but I doubt you will like this e-bay price;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HYDRAURINCAG ... ctupt=true

GSF is not much better (according to their website);

https://www.gsfcarparts.com/980pc0130

[white exec]

We had a look at this a little while ago. There is no listed system cleaning agent for LDS. Seems that a new fill of fluid is the next best thing.
If really dirty, may be worth doing twice.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Roger - Please ignore this post.
Marc & others, When I done a fluid change on my XM......many years ago........ I flushed the system out with Paraffin, is this something that can be used with LDS or is there a specialist flushing fluid available?. Reading the Drain & Refill procedure there is no mention of it.
I am thinking even if the system is dirty, just replacing the fluid will help but it will still not be perfect.

No absolutely nothing like that Stu. LDS is not mineral based like LHM - a completely different kettle of fish and there is no flushing agent at all - just drain and replace.

[GiveMeABreak]

For LHM systems you can het hold of Hydraflush (properly called "hydraurincage"), but I doubt you will like this e-bay price;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HYDRAURINCAG ... ctupt=true

GSF is not much better (according to their website);

https://www.gsfcarparts.com/980pc0130

Just for the purposes of this thread - and for clarification for others that may read this in the future - the OP has an LDS system on the X7, not LHM, so absolutely must not use anything like hydraurincage in LDS based systems!

[rmunns]

Thank you all for the replies.

So just to be completely clear, if I decide to drain and refill, then I need LDS fluid. Is there only one LDS fluid, or is there a special version that I need. Total is easily available here.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi roger

There are several manufacturers making LDS fluid, Total being the Citroen Preferred one - but Elis (EDC5) has just located another supplier which makes it and it is considerably cheaper than Total. It is made to the same specifications demanded by Citroen and at £18.39 for 5 Litres is an incredible buy, considering Total LDS varies on ebay from £11 to £24.72 a Litre!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183106355741?ul_noapp=true

Details on the company:
https://keraxhyperdrive.com/products/ld ... lic-fluid/

It may be worth searching eBay France for them Roger.

[EDC5]

i've just bought a 5L bottle of this LDS fluid from kerax. Interested to see how it compares to Total LDS. It's made to the specific PSA spec so I have high hopes.

It will be useful for when I change the fluid in my power steering circuit.

[Simple76]

Had a few x7 with spheres that needed changing. Although they hold gas pressure for many years they still loose pressure. A few bar pressure loss has a big effect on vehicles ride. This is because there Is a double convoluted diaphragm inside which uses more pressure to depress. Thus few bar pressure loss effects ride. Had a few that have been completely flat. I would advise having them checked I get mine recharged at Pleaiades.

[EDC5]

That's very interesting. Whilst I do like the ride of my C5 it has never been what I'd call 'magic carpet'. I've always put it down the height being wrong.

How does low sphere pressure manifest itself on the quality of the ride?

[white exec]

I don't think the multi-layered (not convoluted!) diaphragms of saucer spheres affects springing one jot.
Also intrigued about recharging these: how is this possible?

Agree that pressure loss equals poorer ride.
Any discussion about sphere resilience needs to take into account three things:
- sphere volume (greater volume = more movement)
- gas pressure (higher pressure = softer ride)
- damping orifice (smaller orifice = greater damping of movement)

The triple-layer (multi-couche) diaphragms were also used on the previous generation of green/grey round spheres, where they were used in a hot location - eg engine compartment. These diaphragms allowed less nitrogen leakage/diffusion through them.

[Simple76]

The double diaphragm is not as flexible (Harder)as earlier type of spheres (which helps to maintain pressure) because of the rigidity of the diaphram the pressure needs to be maintained loosing a few bar makes a big difference. Don’t know how they get recharged but I get them tested and recharged if necessary at a reasonable price. Had a few which have failed completely. Oddly seems to be Left hand front which generally fails.