HI
complete novice here so please be patient
Citroen zx td on a K plate 1993 Quite good condition, 144000 miles.
Recently developed a tremendous oil leak which turned out to be the head gasket needing replaced and also as such an amount of oil got on to the timing belt, i also replaced that + camshaft oil seal.
Got the car back 2day, but i noticed quite alot of oil was in the radiator and this worried me. spoke to the guy who was involved with the job and he said that sometimes oil gets into the radiator when the gasket is needing repaired and also sometimes during a head gasket repair some oil can get into the radiator this way, and not to worry about it.
He told me to monitor the oil level over the next couple of days to make sure no oil was getting into the radiator from the gasket not being properly fitted, and he suggested to disperse the oily radiator , add some washing up liquid and let it run thru it for a couple of days then flush out the radiator completely.
Also recently my heating in the car was not working , and the chap suggested that the oil was getting into the matrix.
could this be the case ?
And is there anything else i could do to clean this oil & flush the radiator
THanks very much for reading this Epic
Tom
Citroen Zx Td, head gasket & oil in radiator
-
oilyspanner
- Posts: 1246
- Joined: 26 Oct 2003, 16:08
When the head gasket goes on these engines it is rare for oil to reach the cooling system, you could drain and flush the cooling system with washing soda flakes(plastic packets from kwik save about 50p) fill the system with the soapy stuff and run it around for a bit with the heater on then drain flush with plenty of water and refill, dont leave it in for too long as it can dissolve the delicate bits.
Stewart
Stewart
-
RichardW
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 12440
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
- x 1432
Oil in water from head gasket is usually sludgy brown colour. If you are getting black oil in the water, then there's a strong possibility that the oil cooler (behind the oil filter) has sprung a leak. You can take the coolant pipes off and then run the engine (for a short time!) to see if any oil leaks out of the cooler.
-
Brian Oblivion
- Posts: 98
- Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 14:48
Things sometime need time to settle down, best thing is to either get someone who knows (or if you are handy, yourself)to completely flush the cooling system, refill and bleed.
If the air is cool then it sounds like theres air in there somewhere, its supposed to be tricky to do.... See below
Coolant
I have an L reg citroen ZX 1.9 diesel and after driving for about 5 minutes the
engine oile temperature guage gradually sneaks up to the red. In addition, NO heat
is coming out of the air fan heaters for the inside of the car.
I've checked that there is enough oil in the engine, and enough water
in the radiator and there is. The radiatior gets warm when the engine first starts,
and all the pipes too and from it get warm as the engine heats up, but once it gets
into the top end of the temperature scale, the radiator gets very cold (fans come on
too, but I'd expect a little residual heat in there coming off from the cooling fans?)
The big pipe at the top of the radiator gets VERY hot and the other pipe on the other
ide that comes into the bottom (on the side where you pour the water in the radiator)
just goes cold.
I guess its blocked, but I cannot work out where or how, does anyone have any clues
at all please?
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - alvin Sun 10 Nov 02 21:17
Alex,
I would check the obvious to begin with.
Disconnect the top and bottom hoses and see if you get a good water flow through the
radiator with an hosepipe.
Remove the thermostat and test or perhaps even replace as a matter of course.
Check out the archives on this site regarding the re-filling of the cooling system as
apparently this engine is prone to airlocks through not being refilled correctly.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - Big Cat Wed 20 Nov 02 13:01
The 1.9 engine is notoriously difficult to bleed air out of. Make sure you get this seen
to quickly, the cooling system on these engines is marginal, any overheating can easily
lead to a blown headgasket.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - FFX-DM Wed 20 Nov 02 16:01
The matrix on ZX's is also a well known trouble spot. You could try thoroughly flushing the
system out to see if it's sludge that's the problem. The O-rings and connectors to the
matrix go a bit hard and flat and can leak. If you are not loosing coolant but you have
no heat, that's what I would suspect.
If you have major air locks in the coolant, in my experience, this causes the system to
pressurise and blow coolant out of the cap. If you are not loosing coolant, this does not
seem as likely. If you want to try properly filling the system up to avoid airlocks, a usual
Citroen dodge is to create a header tank out of something like a plastic bottle with a
tube attached, which wedges in the filler hole. Fill the system until air stops coming
out of the bleed valves (I think there are 2) and then close them off. My tame mechanic
did something similar by bunging a hose in the hole and running the hose until only liquid
came from the bleed valves.
Also, check for head gasket symptoms - murky oil, oily sludge on inside of filler cap,
coolant system remaining pressurised after car has cooled down, car overheating...
I am afraid that head gasket problems are also common in ZX's.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - M.M Wed 20 Nov 02 21:15
OK guys some fair points above....here is chapter and verse..
Posted by David W on June 3, 2001, 4:38 am , in reply to "Re: Possible faults.
"Years ago cooling systems were simple and filling them just meant pouring in cooolant to
the rad and a few minutes running would self-bleed any small air residue. My 1970 diesel
tractor is like this, big old radiator mounted higher than all the other waterways, no
complicated narrow hose runs curving over the engine - no problems.
But like many other modern cars Citroen's can be a real problem to fill and bleed. Models
with the cap on the radiator are the worse as there is almost no head of water when filling,
even those with the expansion tank aren't much better.
So the method is......
First locate all the bleed points on your particular engine. These may include one
on the radiator opposite the filler cap, two on the thermostat housing, one on the small
hose that leaves the thermostat housing, one on the metal heater feed pipe just behind the
camshaft cover, one on the heater hose just to the rear of the engine, one on a small hose
running just behind the radiator. I do not want to be specific to a particular model/year as
I have seen cars with odd combinations of the normal set-up, just carefully look for them all.
With the engine cool remove the filler cap and fabricate some sort of header tank that
will give about an extra 300mm head of water. Mine is very simple. It is a large plastic
funnel for filling up tractor fuel that has a nozzle about the same size as the filler hole
and holds 3 litres of coolant. I cut the nozzle at a point so that the taper just goes into
the radiator/expansion tank filler hole and a firm push will keep it wedged there. I have seen
loads of other clever solutions to this with little tanks held on a stand and filler hoses that
connect to a modified radiator cap boss, I used mine because it was lying about at the time and
has worked OK for 7 years now.
Now top up the system with coolant and allow the funnel/header tank to fill about 2/3rds.
Bleed each coolant bleed point in turn until bubble-free coolant is seen. Close them all firmly.
Start the engine and allow it to run at a fast idle until the thermostat opens and the radiator
becomes fully hot. During this period you should see loads of small bubbles appear in the
funnel/header tank, and as the thermostat opens a huge amount of air often bubbles up. Now stop
the engine and bleed each point in turn again. Use great care as the coolant will be scalding.
Top up the funnel as needed during this to keep it about 2/3rds full at all times. Close all
bleed points finally and re-start the engine. Allow it to run for up to another five minutes for
all the remaining small air bubbles to bleed off.
When you are happy stop the engine and remove the funnel. Put the radiator cap back on with the
coolant still right to the top (ie overfilled by cold standards). Allow the car to cool completely
then check the level and add/remove coolant as needed. Give the car two days normal use then check
the level again when completely cold. Again add/remove to get the level spot on. Only now consider
this an accurate level to monitor from.
Why is this bleeding crucial? Well the thermostat and coolant temperature warning sensors
(and fan switch on some models) are in a position that is easily left air-locked if this procedure
isn't properly carried out. And these do not work properly in air, only if the water is in contact
with them. So it is possible after a water loss, and re-filling without bleeding, for the engine to
go above the thermostat opening temperature without it allowing coolant to the radiator. Then because
the temperature senders are also in the air lock they don't indicate a problem. Result engine cooks
and the head gasket/head are damaged.
Many Citroen diesel head gasket problems follow a simple loss of water. It is my belief this is
often due to the problem of bleeding the system rather than the initial fault damaging the head/gasket."
Updated by MM 20-11-02
Hope that helps.
MM
Good luck,
If the air is cool then it sounds like theres air in there somewhere, its supposed to be tricky to do.... See below
Coolant
I have an L reg citroen ZX 1.9 diesel and after driving for about 5 minutes the
engine oile temperature guage gradually sneaks up to the red. In addition, NO heat
is coming out of the air fan heaters for the inside of the car.
I've checked that there is enough oil in the engine, and enough water
in the radiator and there is. The radiatior gets warm when the engine first starts,
and all the pipes too and from it get warm as the engine heats up, but once it gets
into the top end of the temperature scale, the radiator gets very cold (fans come on
too, but I'd expect a little residual heat in there coming off from the cooling fans?)
The big pipe at the top of the radiator gets VERY hot and the other pipe on the other
ide that comes into the bottom (on the side where you pour the water in the radiator)
just goes cold.
I guess its blocked, but I cannot work out where or how, does anyone have any clues
at all please?
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - alvin Sun 10 Nov 02 21:17
Alex,
I would check the obvious to begin with.
Disconnect the top and bottom hoses and see if you get a good water flow through the
radiator with an hosepipe.
Remove the thermostat and test or perhaps even replace as a matter of course.
Check out the archives on this site regarding the re-filling of the cooling system as
apparently this engine is prone to airlocks through not being refilled correctly.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - Big Cat Wed 20 Nov 02 13:01
The 1.9 engine is notoriously difficult to bleed air out of. Make sure you get this seen
to quickly, the cooling system on these engines is marginal, any overheating can easily
lead to a blown headgasket.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - FFX-DM Wed 20 Nov 02 16:01
The matrix on ZX's is also a well known trouble spot. You could try thoroughly flushing the
system out to see if it's sludge that's the problem. The O-rings and connectors to the
matrix go a bit hard and flat and can leak. If you are not loosing coolant but you have
no heat, that's what I would suspect.
If you have major air locks in the coolant, in my experience, this causes the system to
pressurise and blow coolant out of the cap. If you are not loosing coolant, this does not
seem as likely. If you want to try properly filling the system up to avoid airlocks, a usual
Citroen dodge is to create a header tank out of something like a plastic bottle with a
tube attached, which wedges in the filler hole. Fill the system until air stops coming
out of the bleed valves (I think there are 2) and then close them off. My tame mechanic
did something similar by bunging a hose in the hole and running the hose until only liquid
came from the bleed valves.
Also, check for head gasket symptoms - murky oil, oily sludge on inside of filler cap,
coolant system remaining pressurised after car has cooled down, car overheating...
I am afraid that head gasket problems are also common in ZX's.
Reply to this message
Citroen Zx Diesel Engine OVerheating - M.M Wed 20 Nov 02 21:15
OK guys some fair points above....here is chapter and verse..
Posted by David W on June 3, 2001, 4:38 am , in reply to "Re: Possible faults.
"Years ago cooling systems were simple and filling them just meant pouring in cooolant to
the rad and a few minutes running would self-bleed any small air residue. My 1970 diesel
tractor is like this, big old radiator mounted higher than all the other waterways, no
complicated narrow hose runs curving over the engine - no problems.
But like many other modern cars Citroen's can be a real problem to fill and bleed. Models
with the cap on the radiator are the worse as there is almost no head of water when filling,
even those with the expansion tank aren't much better.
So the method is......
First locate all the bleed points on your particular engine. These may include one
on the radiator opposite the filler cap, two on the thermostat housing, one on the small
hose that leaves the thermostat housing, one on the metal heater feed pipe just behind the
camshaft cover, one on the heater hose just to the rear of the engine, one on a small hose
running just behind the radiator. I do not want to be specific to a particular model/year as
I have seen cars with odd combinations of the normal set-up, just carefully look for them all.
With the engine cool remove the filler cap and fabricate some sort of header tank that
will give about an extra 300mm head of water. Mine is very simple. It is a large plastic
funnel for filling up tractor fuel that has a nozzle about the same size as the filler hole
and holds 3 litres of coolant. I cut the nozzle at a point so that the taper just goes into
the radiator/expansion tank filler hole and a firm push will keep it wedged there. I have seen
loads of other clever solutions to this with little tanks held on a stand and filler hoses that
connect to a modified radiator cap boss, I used mine because it was lying about at the time and
has worked OK for 7 years now.
Now top up the system with coolant and allow the funnel/header tank to fill about 2/3rds.
Bleed each coolant bleed point in turn until bubble-free coolant is seen. Close them all firmly.
Start the engine and allow it to run at a fast idle until the thermostat opens and the radiator
becomes fully hot. During this period you should see loads of small bubbles appear in the
funnel/header tank, and as the thermostat opens a huge amount of air often bubbles up. Now stop
the engine and bleed each point in turn again. Use great care as the coolant will be scalding.
Top up the funnel as needed during this to keep it about 2/3rds full at all times. Close all
bleed points finally and re-start the engine. Allow it to run for up to another five minutes for
all the remaining small air bubbles to bleed off.
When you are happy stop the engine and remove the funnel. Put the radiator cap back on with the
coolant still right to the top (ie overfilled by cold standards). Allow the car to cool completely
then check the level and add/remove coolant as needed. Give the car two days normal use then check
the level again when completely cold. Again add/remove to get the level spot on. Only now consider
this an accurate level to monitor from.
Why is this bleeding crucial? Well the thermostat and coolant temperature warning sensors
(and fan switch on some models) are in a position that is easily left air-locked if this procedure
isn't properly carried out. And these do not work properly in air, only if the water is in contact
with them. So it is possible after a water loss, and re-filling without bleeding, for the engine to
go above the thermostat opening temperature without it allowing coolant to the radiator. Then because
the temperature senders are also in the air lock they don't indicate a problem. Result engine cooks
and the head gasket/head are damaged.
Many Citroen diesel head gasket problems follow a simple loss of water. It is my belief this is
often due to the problem of bleeding the system rather than the initial fault damaging the head/gasket."
Updated by MM 20-11-02
Hope that helps.
MM
Good luck,