hydraulic fluid
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christine mellor
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 21 Jan 2004, 23:14
hydraulic fluid
where can i buy the lhm fluid please
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Dave Burns
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
- x 2
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Homer
- Posts: 1503
- Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
- x 16
Most car accessory shops stock it, failing that try a Citroen dealer.
Or even, http://www.gsfcarparts.com/
Or even, http://www.gsfcarparts.com/
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noz
- Posts: 118
- Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 03:33
Just be careful what you pay for it. There are many (at least 7 that I know of) different manufacturers (or badges !) and they all charge different prices. The cheapest I have seen is 'Granville' for approx £1.20 per litre, the most expensive made by 'Total' which you get from Citroen agents at a rip-off £6.00 per litre. Only buy from the agent if you're really, really, really stuck.
If I'm away from home and spring a leak it breaks my heart to part with £6.00 for a litre bottle.
cheers
noz
If I'm away from home and spring a leak it breaks my heart to part with £6.00 for a litre bottle.
cheers
noz
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Paulxmski
- Posts: 154
- Joined: 13 Nov 2003, 04:20
Hi Christine,
Europarts sells Bendix Super LHM for just under £3.79 a litre inc VAT and it is excellent quality. Granville's crap don't buy it unless you have a massive leak and are just pouring the stuff through. Best thing is buy 5 litres at a time it's much cheaper then and carry it round in the boot of your car 'cause you never know when your car might start being a slimey green trailer!!
Europarts sells Bendix Super LHM for just under £3.79 a litre inc VAT and it is excellent quality. Granville's crap don't buy it unless you have a massive leak and are just pouring the stuff through. Best thing is buy 5 litres at a time it's much cheaper then and carry it round in the boot of your car 'cause you never know when your car might start being a slimey green trailer!!
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noz
- Posts: 118
- Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 03:33
Paul,
I'm interested in your description of 'crap' for the Granville brand. How did you come to this conclusion? Did you try several brands and do some sort of comparison? If someone has studied this and has some scientific results I'd like to know the results.
Is the comparison objective, ie measured, or subjective?
Otherwise we're relying on sale price to determine quality which is just about the worst indicator there is. Usually sale price is an indicator of the scale of rip-off, case in point, Total.
cheers
norrie
I'm interested in your description of 'crap' for the Granville brand. How did you come to this conclusion? Did you try several brands and do some sort of comparison? If someone has studied this and has some scientific results I'd like to know the results.
Is the comparison objective, ie measured, or subjective?
Otherwise we're relying on sale price to determine quality which is just about the worst indicator there is. Usually sale price is an indicator of the scale of rip-off, case in point, Total.
cheers
norrie
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arry_b
- Posts: 519
- Joined: 10 Dec 2002, 15:55
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by noz</i>
Otherwise we're relying on sale price to determine quality which is just about the worst indicator there is. Usually sale price is an indicator of the scale of rip-off, case in point, Total.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Very true. The best example I have found of this is the sticky "scottoil" used for oiling bike chains. Bought in a scottoil bottle - £5.49 per half litre.
Allegedly (ahem!), the scottoil factory has a lot of chainsaw lube delivered on a regular basis which costs about £5.49 a gallon.
Draw your own conclusions about using cost as a relative quaility indicator. I guess that there aren't many places that actually *pruduce* LHM rather than just repackage it.
Otherwise we're relying on sale price to determine quality which is just about the worst indicator there is. Usually sale price is an indicator of the scale of rip-off, case in point, Total.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Very true. The best example I have found of this is the sticky "scottoil" used for oiling bike chains. Bought in a scottoil bottle - £5.49 per half litre.
Allegedly (ahem!), the scottoil factory has a lot of chainsaw lube delivered on a regular basis which costs about £5.49 a gallon.
Draw your own conclusions about using cost as a relative quaility indicator. I guess that there aren't many places that actually *pruduce* LHM rather than just repackage it.
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alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
I can speak with a little bit of authority about this LHM topic as I probably managed to get my fingers into it a bit deeper than most a couple of years ago.
WE used to buy LHM from BP in Australia for $120 for 20 litres. Suddenly they put their price up to about $250 for the same amount & with the humility that only an oil comapny could summon, effectively told us to get stuffed when we asked for a reason for the sudden rise.
At that stage, we could buy LHM from BP, Penrite, Amsoil, Shell & Castrol.
We approached Castrol (by this stage merged with/taken over by or combined with BP) only to be quoted $23 per 500ml bottle. We were told it was "special stuff" [:o)]
The rest told us that their "supplies had dried up" hence they weren't handling it any more or quoted $285/$295 per 20 litre drum; just a 'bit' dearer than BP.
Further enquiries revealed that BP was supposedly supplying most of the other brands.
A complaint to the prices surveillance authority requesting an investigation, apart from confirming that they were about as much use as a tit on a bull when it comes to controlling price collusion, eventually yielded the information from BP that the price rise had "slipped through the net over a period of several years" and that there really was a Santa Claus & an Easter bunny!![:0]
When that one was laughed off, it was then claimed that the ptoduct was imported & a combination of the weak Aussie $$ and world parity oil prices were the main reasons (and that if you don't believe in Santa Claus he won't leave anything in your stocking at Christmas.)
To make a long story short, I then contacted Total in Singapore who put me in touch with an oil distributor in Oz. (Total don't have an official presence out here) He quoted 20 litre drums for $110 and whilst in the intervening period the prices have risen, we still are getting it for less than the $250 quoted by BP all that time ago.
The eventual wash up was though, that BP were in fact selling LHM whilst the Castrol quoted at a price that made a Black Label Scotch look cheap was in fact LHM+.
The stuff we got from Total was LHM+ or "the special stuff" to quote Castrol.
The reason I doubt that brand would have a bearing on quality is that to my knowledge only Total make/mix the stuff and I think you'll find that LHM is a registered name and as such would either be repackaged or made under licence and if that was the case, it would be under strict guidelines.
This is borne out by the "Blue Oil" that is sold in Holland under the name of "Renard Blue Hydraulic Oil." Someone mentioned another brand somewhere recently & whilst it's concievable that there could be a quality & property difference in that to LHM, I doubt that you will find anything different in any LHM fluids apart from the fact that the LHM+ was brought in around BX/XM era, whereas the LHM was suitable for green fluid D series as well as CX & GS models.
I am led to believe the + is of a lower viscosity for some reason, so I would say confirm whether the fluid being offered in the newer (+) or the older type.
Last time this subject was broached, I was told that there are a few companies in the Scotland area still selling LHM exclusively & will only get the LHM+ in on special order, so it may be more prevalent than at first you might think and could explain why some claim there is a variance in quality but are blaming brands rather than actual types.
Alan S
WE used to buy LHM from BP in Australia for $120 for 20 litres. Suddenly they put their price up to about $250 for the same amount & with the humility that only an oil comapny could summon, effectively told us to get stuffed when we asked for a reason for the sudden rise.
At that stage, we could buy LHM from BP, Penrite, Amsoil, Shell & Castrol.
We approached Castrol (by this stage merged with/taken over by or combined with BP) only to be quoted $23 per 500ml bottle. We were told it was "special stuff" [:o)]
The rest told us that their "supplies had dried up" hence they weren't handling it any more or quoted $285/$295 per 20 litre drum; just a 'bit' dearer than BP.
Further enquiries revealed that BP was supposedly supplying most of the other brands.
A complaint to the prices surveillance authority requesting an investigation, apart from confirming that they were about as much use as a tit on a bull when it comes to controlling price collusion, eventually yielded the information from BP that the price rise had "slipped through the net over a period of several years" and that there really was a Santa Claus & an Easter bunny!![:0]
When that one was laughed off, it was then claimed that the ptoduct was imported & a combination of the weak Aussie $$ and world parity oil prices were the main reasons (and that if you don't believe in Santa Claus he won't leave anything in your stocking at Christmas.)
To make a long story short, I then contacted Total in Singapore who put me in touch with an oil distributor in Oz. (Total don't have an official presence out here) He quoted 20 litre drums for $110 and whilst in the intervening period the prices have risen, we still are getting it for less than the $250 quoted by BP all that time ago.
The eventual wash up was though, that BP were in fact selling LHM whilst the Castrol quoted at a price that made a Black Label Scotch look cheap was in fact LHM+.
The stuff we got from Total was LHM+ or "the special stuff" to quote Castrol.
The reason I doubt that brand would have a bearing on quality is that to my knowledge only Total make/mix the stuff and I think you'll find that LHM is a registered name and as such would either be repackaged or made under licence and if that was the case, it would be under strict guidelines.
This is borne out by the "Blue Oil" that is sold in Holland under the name of "Renard Blue Hydraulic Oil." Someone mentioned another brand somewhere recently & whilst it's concievable that there could be a quality & property difference in that to LHM, I doubt that you will find anything different in any LHM fluids apart from the fact that the LHM+ was brought in around BX/XM era, whereas the LHM was suitable for green fluid D series as well as CX & GS models.
I am led to believe the + is of a lower viscosity for some reason, so I would say confirm whether the fluid being offered in the newer (+) or the older type.
Last time this subject was broached, I was told that there are a few companies in the Scotland area still selling LHM exclusively & will only get the LHM+ in on special order, so it may be more prevalent than at first you might think and could explain why some claim there is a variance in quality but are blaming brands rather than actual types.
Alan S
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ghostrider
- Posts: 360
- Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 01:10
I bought my last lot from A&D, it worked out cheaper in 1l (Bendix) bottles @?2.75 than the 20l drum @ ?58 (Total)
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Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 05:47, edited 1 time in total.
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AWG
- Posts: 82
- Joined: 19 Oct 2003, 14:51
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Paulxmski
- Posts: 154
- Joined: 13 Nov 2003, 04:20
Hi Noz yu all,
well yes sorry I must retract that comment in case somebody at Granville decides to sue although happily in the legal jargon I'm what's known as a man of straw my statement is subjective but I did manage to get through a considerable number and variety of litres of LHM and LHM+ when the steering rack sprung a leak and I was passing 4 litres through on a 28 mile journey. I noticed that the Granville stuff seemed to be very thin, and that's compared with Bendix LHM+ which is what I currently use. There is a bottle of Total LHM in the boot of my latest XM aquisition so I will have a look and feel of that. Actually I must confess I don't really know what the characteristics of a good light hydraulic mineral oil should be and for all I know Granville could be producing/selling "green gold". The other manufacturers who are charging champagne prices could be dressing up their products to look better than they really are but something tells me that Granville's LHM is definitely not the best in the range, and when one considers that this horrible gunk is the only thing keeping a Citroen on the road i.e: steering, brakes and suspension why would anyone want to save a few quid and risk they're life?
well yes sorry I must retract that comment in case somebody at Granville decides to sue although happily in the legal jargon I'm what's known as a man of straw my statement is subjective but I did manage to get through a considerable number and variety of litres of LHM and LHM+ when the steering rack sprung a leak and I was passing 4 litres through on a 28 mile journey. I noticed that the Granville stuff seemed to be very thin, and that's compared with Bendix LHM+ which is what I currently use. There is a bottle of Total LHM in the boot of my latest XM aquisition so I will have a look and feel of that. Actually I must confess I don't really know what the characteristics of a good light hydraulic mineral oil should be and for all I know Granville could be producing/selling "green gold". The other manufacturers who are charging champagne prices could be dressing up their products to look better than they really are but something tells me that Granville's LHM is definitely not the best in the range, and when one considers that this horrible gunk is the only thing keeping a Citroen on the road i.e: steering, brakes and suspension why would anyone want to save a few quid and risk they're life?
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mark_sp
- Posts: 230
- Joined: 13 Apr 2003, 00:47
Isn't LHM+ only required for hydractive cars ?
I ran my 2 BX's on plain old LHM and my non hydractive Xantia is happy too.
The other point is that its downward compatible, you can add LHM+ to an LHM car (not that I would personally) but you can't use LHM in an LHM+ car.
Anyway I was wondering are the people who drive around with 5 litres of LHM in the boot the same ones that always seem to have a can of fuel handy when they run out ?
Mark
I ran my 2 BX's on plain old LHM and my non hydractive Xantia is happy too.
The other point is that its downward compatible, you can add LHM+ to an LHM car (not that I would personally) but you can't use LHM in an LHM+ car.
Anyway I was wondering are the people who drive around with 5 litres of LHM in the boot the same ones that always seem to have a can of fuel handy when they run out ?
Mark
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DoubleChevron
- Posts: 622
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06
Hi Guys,
LHM is really just a simple mineral oil. Any thin oil with the same characteristics will do just as well. Next time the importers feel like charging huge $$$$ for what is basically a mineral oil with some green dye in it, I'll just go to the local airport and buy some Milspec 5606. I'd put $$$ on LHM is just a lower spec 5606 with green dye (lower spec as it doesn't have to meet military specs so it much cheaper to make).
seeya,
Shane L.
LHM is really just a simple mineral oil. Any thin oil with the same characteristics will do just as well. Next time the importers feel like charging huge $$$$ for what is basically a mineral oil with some green dye in it, I'll just go to the local airport and buy some Milspec 5606. I'd put $$$ on LHM is just a lower spec 5606 with green dye (lower spec as it doesn't have to meet military specs so it much cheaper to make).
seeya,
Shane L.
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alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mark_sp</i>
Isn't LHM+ only required for hydractive cars ?
I ran my 2 BX's on plain old LHM and my non hydractive Xantia is happy too.
The other point is that its downward compatible, you can add LHM+ to an LHM car (not that I would personally) but you can't use LHM in an LHM+ car.
Anyway I was wondering are the people who drive around with 5 litres of LHM in the boot the same ones that always seem to have a can of fuel handy when they run out ?
Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Mark,
I used to think that too until I bought my BX 16V & lo & behold in the owners manual was the recommendation that it have LHM+ used in it which threw all my theories out the window.
The aircraft oil caper has been debated for years with the general argument being that it is cheaper; sounded good until I was talking to a guy who runs a small airline near me & I mentioned it. Turns out he pays so much for his fluid he's examining the chances of being able to use LHM in his planes as he can buy if at half the price of the stuff we often refer to as a viable option; so much for that theory.[:D][:D][;)]
Ohh, & incidentally, the reason I carry LHM with me is that I'm almost 4 hours drive to my nearest supplier & last time I needed some in an emergency & didn't have it, I was 1200 klms away from him.[:0][8]
Alan S [}:)]
Isn't LHM+ only required for hydractive cars ?
I ran my 2 BX's on plain old LHM and my non hydractive Xantia is happy too.
The other point is that its downward compatible, you can add LHM+ to an LHM car (not that I would personally) but you can't use LHM in an LHM+ car.
Anyway I was wondering are the people who drive around with 5 litres of LHM in the boot the same ones that always seem to have a can of fuel handy when they run out ?
Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Mark,
I used to think that too until I bought my BX 16V & lo & behold in the owners manual was the recommendation that it have LHM+ used in it which threw all my theories out the window.
The aircraft oil caper has been debated for years with the general argument being that it is cheaper; sounded good until I was talking to a guy who runs a small airline near me & I mentioned it. Turns out he pays so much for his fluid he's examining the chances of being able to use LHM in his planes as he can buy if at half the price of the stuff we often refer to as a viable option; so much for that theory.[:D][:D][;)]
Ohh, & incidentally, the reason I carry LHM with me is that I'm almost 4 hours drive to my nearest supplier & last time I needed some in an emergency & didn't have it, I was 1200 klms away from him.[:0][8]
Alan S [}:)]
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mark_sp
- Posts: 230
- Joined: 13 Apr 2003, 00:47
Alan
LHM+ in bx16 valve makes sense as I think LHM+ is thinner and the 16V has the tightest damping (in spheres)of all the bx's.
Point taken about distance.
Thing is LHM only really gets expensive when the hydraulic system has malfunctioned and has become a total loss system. Had to put 2 litres (£12) into my first bx once just to get the car to rise enough for me to get a jack under it, lost most of it by the time I could release the pressure.
Mark
LHM+ in bx16 valve makes sense as I think LHM+ is thinner and the 16V has the tightest damping (in spheres)of all the bx's.
Point taken about distance.
Thing is LHM only really gets expensive when the hydraulic system has malfunctioned and has become a total loss system. Had to put 2 litres (£12) into my first bx once just to get the car to rise enough for me to get a jack under it, lost most of it by the time I could release the pressure.
Mark