DPF Service in a C5

[Quackers]

My 2007 2.2 (173bhp) C5 is coming up to 180,000 miles and i have never had the fluid topped up in the 7 years and 70,000 miles i have owned it so i am expecting it to bleep that particulate additive is low soon. According to Citroens service intervals the fluid should be topped up at 80,000 and then the DPF swapped at 160,000. Do you have to change the DPF or can you get away with just topping the eolys fluid up ?

[MikeT]

I found it best to monitor the actual live data through Diagbox/Lexia as it shows those "estimated" values Citroen provde can be wildly misleading, dependant on both the vehicle's history of (ab)use and normal useage. ie, a car that's underused (frequent cold starts and short journeys) vs a mile-muncher reps wagon.

ie, the exhaust pressure differential that goes towards estimating how restricted the DPF is, both before and after regens. When I first got the car (69,000miles), the blockage percentage was around 3% after regens. Following home maintance and a forced regen, that now drops to 0% after regens and the intervals between regens has improved, meaning my DPF's estimated end-of-life has presumably increased quite dramatically.

I don't know when or if my addtive has been topped up but it always reads 3L is present and the "additive in the filter" estimation that showed it was "full" and end-of-life (ie, an excuse for Citroen to replace DPF regardless of it being required) had to be reset to 0 to clear a logged fault, with no ill-effects.

[RichardW]

Got the warning light for the DPF being full on our C4. It needs a new stat anyway so I was going to drain the coolant, and pull the DPF the clean it out. But perhaps just a forced regen, and then resetting the light would be enough!

[MikeT]

I would suggest trying a static forced regen, Richard. While Citroen state driving at 40mph or more in 4th or 5th is sufficient for a regen, a forced (stationary) regen holds the revs at 4000rpm for a full five minutes which produces much higher exhaust flow and heat. Worth a go as it costs just pennies at little effort plus do it at night and you get an entertaining tailpipe show at the same time

[Paul-R]

Perhaps a previous owner has punched the DPF through and had the ECU reprogrammed?

[Quackers]

Well 2 days after my original post i got the FAP Additive low error message. I have had this car since 113,000 miles and its now on 180,000. The weird thing is the garage tipped the fluid in the tank out into another container and there was still 3 litres left in it They have topped it up with half a litre so it now has 3.5 and reset the counter, but something has got to be wrong as it should use a whole tanks worth in the mileage i have had the car and i have never had the fluid topped up.

[crapday69]

may be the pump is not working so no or not enough fluid is getting pumped into the tank.

Gary.

[GiveMeABreak]

If the garage have indeed retrieved 3 litres of additive, then obviously the additive system is not injecting it into the fuel system. There could be several reasons:

• The additive tank was refilled at some point before you bought it, but some foreign matter has got into the additive pump and blocked it up
• The pump is not actually pumping through loss of power or other electrical fault
• The DPF itself has been punctured, affecting the differential pressure sensor data
• The system has deliberately been disabled - AND highly possible the DPF itself has been tampered with and removed (as mentioned by Paul)

In the first 3 points above, this would normally trigger one of several warnings, through a clogged filter because of soot build up / sensor data and trigger a backup mode - UNLESS in the case of the last point...

There is no way the car could cover that mileage with a DPF in situ and still operate. The DPF would have began to clog with soot after only a few thousand miles, putting up warnings causing the engine ECU to initiate one of an increasing level of backup modes until the problem was rectified.

Having said that, there is passive regeneration of course that does take place if the engine temperature gets hot enough - and assistance is only required where needed - blockage levels are calculated with data acquired the differential pressure sensors.

So unless you live in the baking heat of the Sahara and go for a regular 100 mile spin to the local oasis in third gear, the signs would point to the DPF having being intentionally 'eliminated'.

I would really hope this is not the case. With the new stricter MOT rules coming in this year from May, any signs of tampering to the DPF can lead to a fail (or a refusal to test), and any smoke emitted will also be a give away I suspect.

I would really like to know the outcome of this at some point if you get the chance.

I expect that there will be lots of buyers of second hand diesels completely unaware of purchasing a 'de-fapped' vehicle - until it is picked up with these new tests. We've got all those dodgy garages and some 'tuning' providers to thank for that, who should have been brought to book a long time ago IMO.

[crapday69]

Just reading what you say Marc, I wonder the legal ramifications are if you buy a de-fapped car. Can you sue the seller if they knew about this mod or if you can prove they authorised it.

Gary.

[urzica]

Well 2 days after my original post i got the FAP Additive low error message. I have had this car since 113,000 miles and its now on 180,000. The weird thing is the garage tipped the fluid in the tank out into another container and there was still 3 litres left in it They have topped it up with half a litre so it now has 3.5 and reset the counter, but something has got to be wrong as it should use a whole tanks worth in the mileage i have had the car and i have never had the fluid topped up.

Same situation with me, new car, Citroen C5 II year 2007, 195 000 km by now, never refill additive tank, measured 3 litres additive remining in the tank, never had warning light for clogged filter or low level additive, strange situation..

[GiveMeABreak]

Just reading what you say Marc, I wonder the legal ramifications are if you buy a de-fapped car. Can you sue the seller if they knew about this mod or if you can prove they authorised it.

Gary.

The difficulty I can see Gary, is that a seller can just say 'nothing to do with us Guv'. There are several issues I can see, one being the warranty - on a second hand vehicle out of warranty, you may have no come back.

Next, the garage could say the DPF could of been removed after they sold it - and this is the bit - I can see there being a lot of people who now find they are in this situation, having failed their MOTs and left with a large bill for getting it sorted. So there could be a lot of people that will go back to their seller who can feign ignorance - BUT they could also be perfectly innocent if they have just sold a car on from a customer - so they could also be the innocent party.

I suspect, whilst we still have diesel cars with FAPs, it will be even more important for a potential buyer to have some verification of the DPF as being present and working - so I can see the sales of cheap diagnostic kits rocketing for Joe public to do their own checks, including any faults to be honest as any EML is going to be a fail.

And going back to your original question Gary, I suspect it will be a matter of trying to prove the seller knew about it before they sold it to you.

I guess a new thing one needs to be asking now before buying a diesel, is to get some written confirmation from the seller that the DPF is present and operative..... Fun times ahead.

On another note, there is a huge price range in DPF filters - the earlier pre Euro 5 ones are a lot cheaper.

The DW10BTED4 (2.0) engines cost £645 inc VAT (Citroen Exchange) or £728 Inc. for Original new.
The DW12BTED4 (2.7) is £830 (Citroen original) or £431 inc. VAT (Part 1611323180) for cars >3 years old.
However, the DW10CTED4 (Euro 5, 2010 >) is £1159 exchange!

So not the necessarily the end of the world if you have to get it put back on - and assuming that nothing else has been crippled.....

[myglaren]

The DW10BTED4 (2.0) engines cost £645 inc VAT (Citroen Exchange) or £728 Inc. for Original new.
The DW12BTED4 (2.7) is £830 (Citroen original) or £431 inc. VAT (Part 1611323180) for cars >3 years old.
However, the DW10CTED4 (Euro 5, 2010 >) is £1159 exchange!

You had me worried there for a minute until I realised that I have no DPF

Son in law just dumped his SAAB for a 3L Audi diesel - he may be in for a bit of a shock as I believe it has two cats & DPFs.

[GiveMeABreak]

Fun times ahead then Steve! And just in case anyone reads the above out of context - those prices are for the DPFs - not the engines!

[myglaren]

Fun times ahead then Steve! And just in case anyone reads the above out of context - those prices are for the DPFs - not the engines!

And more than I paid for my C5