China's Car Companies-What do you know?

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Zelandeth
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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by Zelandeth »

BYD I've had a couple of encounters with as they do an electric bus that shares at least the exterior cladding with an Alexander Dennis Enviro 200.

The two I know of have somehow managed to be even *less* reliable than the diesel powered Enviro 200. Not going to attribute the tendency of bits to randomly fall off to BYD either, as that happens with normal E200s as well...

See a few Great Wall pickups around here, they seem pretty serviceable but basic - somewhat like a modern-day version of what the Tata Loadbeta range was back in the 90s. Haven't really been about long enough to see how they do in terms of longevity.

Brilliance I only know of because they were one of the ones that got hauled in for the crash testing a few years back. The results were a car that looked somewhat like a Toyota Carina - but folded up like a tin can the moment it hit anything. Seriously - it made a Mini or 2CV look solid.

There's quite a market I reckon for a premium marque to establish itself over there - they are more than capable of designing, engineering and producing really good kit when they want to put their minds to it (the mobile phones in this house are now entirely Huawei made, split between the P9 and P10 - knocks the socks of the Samsungs we've had before, without any of the maddening niggles that had been around since the Galaxy S2 and never got sorted), and I seriously rate Rigol for their test equipment. They've been around for a few years now, and the other cheaper options are only really starting to catch up now in terms of the feature set. I *really* want one of the Rigol DSOs...

If they dropped in over here with some well placed dealerships with something offering all the toys that the likes of Audi are offering at a lower price - and actually provided a decent product, I reckon that they'd start to shift cars pretty quickly. Look at Kia now...In the grand scheme of things, it's not that long ago that the first generation Sportage and the Pride were the only things they offered...

Especially of interest is that I'm sure that I've heard mention of the fact that the Chinese market consider seat comfort and ride quality as quite high priorities on premium models. Makes me wonder how on earth VW/Audi manage to sell anything over there...

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Zelandeth wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 13:11
Especially of interest is that I'm sure that I've heard mention of the fact that the Chinese market consider seat comfort and ride quality as quite high priorities on premium models. Makes me wonder how on earth VW/Audi manage to sell anything over there...
The small bit I do know about China's car market is that if you want to sell cars in China you have to partner with a Chinese manufacturer, and no doubt that factor alone saves any underhand requirement for industrial espionage its all up front!

wiki as ever comes up with some decent information, VW are the 2nd largest foreign carmaker after general motors operating in China as far as sales are concerned. Their partners are SAIC (Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation), and FAW (First Automobile Works) 2 of the "big four" Chinese Auto Makers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswage ... v-in-china


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Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 06 Mar 2018, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

And this is the first car produced entiely in China in 1958 and for discrerning FCF members you may spot a bit of French Heritage in there!

It was based on a :?:

Image
Dongfeng CA71 (replica) front-right 2016 Beijing Auto Museum [CC BY-SA 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0)], by Morio (Own work), from Wikimedia Commons

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

It looks (to me, at least) somewhat like a Peugeot 403.

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by white exec »

Interesting comments about Dennis, Zel.
Back in 1998, our then nextdoor neighbour worked as a chassis-welder for Dennis in Guildford, where they (amongst other things) assembled engine-fitted driveable chassis for others to fit bus and other bodies to. Used to see leather-and-sheepskin-clad drivers delivering these chassis up the A3 in driving snow and rain...
One of the contracts the chassis guys had was for a Chinese company, who were going to "body" the Dennis-made chassis - in this case, apparently, for a 200-passenger double-decker. The depth and strength of the chassis girders were something they'd never seen before!
Dennis's Roundabout still exists in Guildford (not far from the Cathedral and Uni), even though Dennis have long gone.

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 17:52
It looks (to me, at least) somewhat like a Peugeot 403.


That car is a Hongqi, and is based on the Simca Vedette body and the Mercedes Benz M121 engine

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Interesting little factoid, Audi sell twice as many cars in China as they do in Germany. (2016 China 592k Germany 293K)
yes nul points for presentation!
yes nul points for presentation!
What price Chinese Audis making their way to the UK post Brexit?

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 06 Mar 2018, 20:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I wonder how long it will be before Audi see their Chinese sales drop off, and, coincidentally, an increase in the number of Audi 'clones'?

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

These partnering arrangements with Chinese Companies are as long term as they get, and VW got in early on the act.
In 1984, a joint venture (JV) was established between Volkswagen Group and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (now SAIC Motor), creating Shanghai Volkswagen Automotive Co., Ltd. (SVW). With its headquarters in Shanghai, equity holdings are split (as of 2010) - Volkswagen AG (40%), Volkswagen (China) Invest (10%), SAIC (50%). This a fixed term venture, of 45 years, running until 2030.

The second joint venture, FAW-Volkswagen Automobile Co., Ltd. (FAW-VW) is a joint venture between FAW Group and Volkswagen Group which manufactures Audi and Volkswagen marque passenger cars for sale in China. Ownership of the company is: FAW – 51%, Volkswagen AG – 20%, Audi AG – 10%, and Volkswagen (China) Invest – 19%. FAW-VW was founded on 6 February 1991.-Volkswagen Automotive Company Ltd. was established in Changchun in February 1991.
Under the 2 agreements, much of VW's range, Skodas and selected Audi's have been manufactured in China.

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

While General Motors and VW are way out in front in their joint ventures in China, its part of Nissan's strategy to become a clear Number 3

Nissan to pump $9.5 billion into China business, eyes top three spot
Nissan plans to achieve the objective, dubbed its “Triple One” strategy, by focusing on electric cars and Venucia, a no-frills local brand Nissan operates in China - two market segments expected to see a surge in demand. It also aims to boost sales of light commercial vans and trucks.

China’s auto market has been dominated by General Motors Co and Volkswagen AG for nearly two decades, with each of them selling 4 million vehicles last year. Nissan, along with Toyota Motor Corp , Ford Motor Co, and Honda Motor Co, lag far behind, each selling 1 million-plus vehicles a year.

“We aim to break away from this second-tier group and become a top-3 China automaker,” Nissan’s China chief Jun Seki said in an interview with Reuters.

Seki said the joint venture will launch as many as 20 electrified vehicle models across all brands in an effort to sell roughly 700,000 such cars a year by 2022 excluding electric light commercial vehicles, using a combination of all-electric battery vehicles and so-called “e-Power” hybrids.
Meanwhile DongFeng Renault is concentrating on...you've probably guessed it a couple of SUV's.
Dongfeng Peugeot Citroen has been losing market share in China and from a peak of around 700,000 in 2015, the reduced target for 2018 is 476,000 vehicles.

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SMMT-Motor Industry Facts 2017

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Usually, I only come across the SMMT, when they dig out a spokesperson to bleat about something to the media. Generally invokes a shout at the radio or TV moment for me.

I have been delving a little bit into Car Companies in China recently, and wondered just what was the state of the worldwide league table of vehicle manufacturing. Well part of this SSMT report comes up with the answer. There may be other interesting bits of it to fish out, but sufffice to say China is way,way,way out in the lead.
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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Borgward is a famous traditional German marque originally based in Bremen and producing cars like this Isabella.

Image

The brand got revived with its HQ in Stuttgart, and with investment from Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co., Ltd (BAIC) in the form of its subsidiary Foton. The cars are produced in China.

Borgward Group AG's website doesnt mention much about the Chinese connection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgward_Group
Borgward Group AG is a German-based international automobile brand, which carries the identity of former German brand Borgward. It has started its business with a fleet of conventional SUVs with German design and engineering, with sales reaching approx. 75,000 units by January 2018. However, the company aspires to become one of the leading electric-vehicle manufacturers in the next decade. It has already introduced the BXi7, a full-electric SUV to be launched in 2018; and at the Frankfurt Motor Show 2017 presented the Isabella concept, its vision of a full-electric 4-door coupé.
This is what the Borgward Isabella all-electric coupe may look like if it emerges from concept to production

Image

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Wonder if a new post on this thread will tempt the Baidu spider to make an appearance.

See what do you know about bots if you think that’s double dutch :-D

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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

van ordinaire wrote:
28 Mar 2018, 01:56
They make Buicks in China - I doubt that any Chinese Industrial Conglomorate has a 1/2-share in GM.
Not 50% globally of course but to manufacture and sell their vehicles in China they have to establish joint ventures with Chinese manufacturers. GM have 10 Joint Venture Companies in China to manufacture their vehicles
from http://www.gmchina.com/company/cn/en/gm ... china.html
SAIC-GM Joint Venture
SAIC General Motors Co., Ltd. (SAIC-GM) is a joint venture between GM and SAIC that was established on June 12, 1997. SAIC-GM has four major manufacturing bases – Jinqiao in Shanghai, Dong Yue in Yantai, Norsom in Shenyang and Wuhan – with eight vehicle plants and four powertrain plants. SAIC-GM offers over 20 product lines under the Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac brands. Its products include luxury vehicles, economy and premium sedans, MPVs and SUVs, and hybrid and electric vehicles.
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Re: China's Car Companies-What do you know?

Post by sparksie »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 16:54
While General Motors and VW are way out in front in their joint ventures in China, its part of Nissan's strategy to become a clear Number 3

Nissan to pump $9.5 billion into China business, eyes top three spot
Nissan plans to achieve the objective, dubbed its “Triple One” strategy, by focusing on electric cars and Venucia, a no-frills local brand Nissan operates in China - two market segments expected to see a surge in demand. It also aims to boost sales of light commercial vans and trucks.

China’s auto market has been dominated by General Motors Co and Volkswagen AG for nearly two decades, with each of them selling 4 million vehicles last year. Nissan, along with Toyota Motor Corp , Ford Motor Co, and Honda Motor Co, lag far behind, each selling 1 million-plus vehicles a year.

“We aim to break away from this second-tier group and become a top-3 China automaker,” Nissan’s China chief Jun Seki said in an interview with Reuters.

Seki said the joint venture will launch as many as 20 electrified vehicle models across all brands in an effort to sell roughly 700,000 such cars a year by 2022 excluding electric light commercial vehicles, using a combination of all-electric battery vehicles and so-called “e-Power” hybrids.
Meanwhile DongFeng Renault is concentrating on...you've probably guessed it a couple of SUV's.
Dongfeng Peugeot Citroen has been losing market share in China and from a peak of around 700,000 in 2015, the reduced target for 2018 is 476,000 vehicles.

Regards Neil


I didn't know Nissan still existed as a separate entity!
They certainly don't seem to make cars any more.
All recent "Nissans" I've seen have been Renaults in frumpy dresses!