Anti Pollution

[IAN SIMPSON]

2008 C3 diesel 1.4 when I go to start the car if I don’t get a beep and auto pollution warning the car starts and drives no problem if the warning is on the engine does not turn over I have to switch ignition off and on maybe only once or up to 10 12 times the next sometimes there is no problem very intermittent i have no codes present reading with snap on solus pro any ideas help thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi and welcome to the Forum Ian (I've converted your post to 'sentence case' - please don't type in 'ALL CAPS' as it's not good 'netiquette') .

Can you supply us with the VIN code of the C3 so we can determine the exact model, engine and options fitted. This will help others to help you.

[IAN SIMPSON]

hi thanks for reply my vin no is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] hope this helps ian

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so you have the C3 II 5 Door Saloon 1.4 HDi 70 Manual gearbox 5, no DPF, with the DV4TD engine.

What we really need is the specific fault code (s) and you'll only get these from a Lexia (preferred) or other code reader. The Malfunction Indicator Light (without another warning lamp also lit) will indicate either an 'Engine ECU fault', an 'On-board diagnosis fault' or a 'Serious pollution fault'. As you've indicated the 'pollution' message it is likely to be the latter.

It could be one of the oxygen sensors / blocked EGR valve for example, but without the fault code (s) we would only be guessing. It certainly would be the best thing to get it diagnosed first.

[IAN SIMPSON]

thanks marc I will get it read at another garage and get back to you the eml light does not come on while the engine is running or driving on the road ian

[IAN SIMPSON]

Hi Marc, just had the codes read again using a different reader, P1351 unknown DTC
P0606 ECM/PCM processor, hope this helps. Thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, this is what I have Ian...

For the Engine ECU: BOSCH EDC16C34

Fault code	P1351
After sales description of the fault code	Pre-heating relay circuit: Coherence; Relay supplied and glow plugs not supplied
Description of the diagnostics	Open circuit for at least 1 s
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics	Consult the associated contexts for the Pcode forwarding conditions
Conditions of disappearance of the fault	Ignition on
Down-grade modes if fault present	-
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message	-
Main customer complaints likely	Lack of power
	Noise
	Jerking/stalling
	Starting problem
Suspect areas	Pre-heater plug
	Electrical harness
	Pre/post heating relay

Fault code	P0606
After sales description of the fault code	Injection electronic control unit: ECU internal fault
Description of the diagnostics	internal fault: Engine ECU
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics	Consult the associated contexts for the Pcode forwarding conditions
Conditions of disappearance of the fault	Ignition switched on
Down-grade modes if fault present	The ECU limits the torque
	Cut in the vehicle cruise control irreversible
	Deactivation of the speed limiter
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message	"SERVICE" warning lamp
Main customer complaints likely	Jerking/stalling
Suspect areas	Engine ECU

So this is what is being returned which will point you in the right direction - You didn't mention anything - but as you can see from the P0606 table, one of the backup modes may be applied - which will restrict engine power (often referred to as 'limp home mode'). Obviously a diagnostic with a Lexia / Diagbox may reveal the triggering reasons which a generic reader won't be able to do.

Has any work been undertaken on it lately? Sometimes mechanics can dislodge or move connectors and not put them back properly - so may be worth having a check. A Citroen Dealer will charge anything from £0 to £90 for a diagnostic - but at least they will in most cases have an idea of the cause. It may not sound as drastic as replacing the engine ECU = as this may just mean there is a communication fault somewhere.

[IAN SIMPSON]

hi marc I sent you a reply on Friday don't see it on the post today don't know if you got it or not
I have got the glow plugs today just need some time to get at it it was cold here on sat it took 21 times on the ign switch before the faulty code went then first turn any tips on removing some posts saying they are easy to break !!! don't want that to happen also some are saying to change glow plug control box at same time whats your thoughts thanks ian

[GiveMeABreak]

Your reply didn't get submitted by the looks of things Ian.

There is always a risk of these breaking on removal - which is another reason why I suggested you might consider investing in a Citroen diagnostic session - as the issue may not be the plugs - but another problem that is symptomatically causing the glow plug fault. They would be able to check this for you and advise - I certainly wouldn't want to go down this route unless necessary. There are certain tools the dealer will have to take the glow plugs out if it was necessary to replace them - which even then, there will still be a risk of breakage.

If you are doing these yourself, here are the tightening torques:
Plugs on cylinder head: Tighten to 0,85 ± 0,08 daN.m.
Bars on plugs: Tighten to 0,12 ± 0,03 daN.m.

[RichardW]

The glow plugs won't be causing that fault. Changing the glow plugs on one of these opens a world of pain - don't go there unless you really really have to!!

Either the BSI is not seeing the key (immobiliser aerial) or the ECU is duff, or has lost a feed or earth. This sort of thing could be associated with a failure of the underbonnet fuse box, or possibly wiring. You need to get some live data to see what is seeing what, and then probably some good old fashioned voltmeter detective work to find out what is going on.

[IAN SIMPSON]

Latest update:

Removed airbox today with some difficulty, not much room.
Found the glow plugs but no matter what i tried could not remove the push on connector (I’m just thinking I hope there was not a nut holding it on but I don't think so).

Today the serv warning lamp came on but goes out when engine started.
Also I’ve noticed when the auto pollution faulty warning is on if I switch the ign switch off and on quickly it it will disappear and car will start no prob.
I only seem to have this problem in the morning when cold starting
Next week i will try and get to my nearest Citroen dealer and get a diagnostic by them.
I will keep posting here till problem solved, hopefully.

Thanks,
Ian.

[IAN SIMPSON]

latest update my local Citroen dealer is closing down end of march and is not taking on any more diagnostic work but the car has taken a turn for the better and is now starting every time came out this morning very frosty and thought it would be an issue but started first time long may it continue ian

[wurlycorner]

Rather than taking it to a Citroen dealer and paying for a diagnostic, see if there is anyone on here that's nearby with a lexia that will read it for you for free - there is a thread/map showing who/where.

[myglaren]

List and map link here.

[ekjdm14]

Just a thought, based on the problem only seemingly being on the first start on a cold morning... How old is the battery and what make?

If there's any doubt at all about the health of the battery then it could be worth replacing that (following correct procedure to avoid creating more issues). Not sure on the C3 specifically but on lots of more modern cars start experiencing strange "glitches" with their electronics if the battery is starting to become weak. (Batteries seem to still kick out plenty of amps to spin the engine over quickly, but don't have enough voltage in reserve to keep the ECUs happy.)

Worth a look into, certainly preferable to trying to extract glow plugs from an HDi engine anyway.