C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
wbgenetic
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 07:57
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Citoren C5 / 2.2 Automatic / Estate (2005) || VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Project name: The Mothership

C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wbgenetic »

Hello good people,

I believe that like many of you - one of the biggest reasons you have picked a Citroen is the ultimate ride quality.
I do not differ. I do however suffer from a rather harsh ride. Note that this is my subjective perception here. The majority of people (that own a Citroen) actually say that my car rides quite well.

However I am willing to push this further and bring back the boat-like XM/BX/CX ride to my car.

I am here to discuss some experimental options that are in my head and would love to hear your opinions on this. Especially if you've been here and done that.

1. Ride height - not tested but I do feel it is slightly higher than it should be - any guidance as to how I can measure. I have a Lexia and can fine-tune up to 10mm (have not tried yet).

2. Spheres. This section is the pinnacle of my Christmas hydraulic madness.
I have ditched the original 52 bar front and 40 bar rear original spheres (they were rattling) and replaced them with 55bar front spheres from a non-hydractive Xantia. The rear ones as well. The ride did improve a bit. I feel that I should not alter these here for the time being.

I am more focused on the Center spheres for the time being. I fully believe that the contemporary ones are shot (though not tested).

I now have the following ideas in my head:
a) replace them with the original C5 spheres with little to no difference in ride quality. Presumably. 62 bar spheres front/ 44 bar rear
b) replace them with Xantia/XM regulator spheres. 75bar front / 50 bar rear. The feedback I have here is that the front is a tad difficult to plug in due to the larger size of the Xantia spheres. If these are XM spheres not sure but there are 70 bar spheres as well ...


The main idea would be to make the car as much boat-likey as possible without compromising safety of course + I will always have the Sport mode to isolate the middle spheres.

3. Tyres - already using the smallest wheel size possible - 15" on 195/65/15.

4. Your ideas are more than welcome!

**) I've seen people playing with their roll-bars - but not much of a fan here.
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25366
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by myglaren »

Load it up with everything heavy that you can find and drive it around for a few days, see if you can perceive any improvement.

I have found in the past that a heavy load improves ride quality but mine is a lowly 3, not 3+. I have had it loaded up with heavy tools for the past ten days and the ride is far better than with it empty.

I believe they are optimised for driver and four passengers + luggage so don't behave as well unloaded and only the driver - which mine usually is, very rarely have any passengers and then only for relatively short distances.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37005
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5646

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The front corners spheres for your 2.2 MK II should be 52, rear corners 44, front centre 62, rear centre 44.

It's well known that the ride on the C5s is firmer than pre-C5 models. Different Spheres, pressures and of course Hydractive 3 or 3Plus. I would caution against changing with spheres not designed for the C5 - they are a different shape, have different gas volumes, valve apertures etc and as you allude to - may affect the stability / safety of the vehicle. Bear in mind that the ESP system is designed to work within known vehicle parameters - modifying the suspension by making it too soft on this vehicle will very likely affect the way the vehicle reacts and handles (which is something we don't encourage on the forum - see A, 7 (I) & (II): Forum AUP).

There is a procedure for checking the heights on the MKII - if you require this, let me know via PM.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
wbgenetic
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 07:57
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Citoren C5 / 2.2 Automatic / Estate (2005) || VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Project name: The Mothership

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wbgenetic »

Yes, loading it with people and/or luggage does improve the ride substantially. I would assume it has the same effect as having higher pressure spheres.

@GiveMeABreak - sorry for not adhering to the rules here. I am merely attempting at softening the ride as the "official options" simply seem to not cut it ...
If you see fit please remove the thread. I appologize to everyone in advance.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 37005
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5646

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by GiveMeABreak »

wbgenetic wrote: 28 Dec 2017, 16:53 @GiveMeABreak - sorry for not adhering to the rules here. I am merely attempting at softening the ride as the "official options" simply seem to not cut it ...
If you see fit please remove the thread. I appologize to everyone in advance.

No problem - we can advise and help out with the normal checks and things to look out for / repairs, but it's not really appropriate to offer advice on swapping suspension components from other models - chalk & cheese.

I have received your PM and you should have the MK II height measuring procedure shortly - check your email in 10 minutes or so. :wink:
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by white exec »

Worth checking too that tyre pressures are correct. Hydractive systems rely on shock/impact absorption by the tyres as 'first line' of the suspension system. Over-inflation on XM, even by just a couple of lb/sq.in (0.15 bar) can turn soft suspension into 'knobbly' and crashy over sudden ridges in the road surface.

As an experiment, try driving the car at correct tyre pressures (accurate gauge essential!), and then reduce the pressures by about 0.2 bar, and see if it makes a difference. That will tell you whether tyre pressure is making a difference.

Don't forget to check and adjust tyre pressures with tyres cold, not after a drive.
Chris
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I would also check that they are the right size of tyre. I remember when CitroJim had problems with his XM (poor ride), and it turned out the tyres were wrong sizes. Once he corrected this problem the XM got its' silky smooth ride back.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
wbgenetic
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 07:57
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Citoren C5 / 2.2 Automatic / Estate (2005) || VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Project name: The Mothership

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wbgenetic »

Thanks everyone for the input so far.
Special Thanks to Marc for the Height measure procedure and diagrams!

Is there a different connotation to "right size of tyre" and the 195/65/15 that I currently have :?
I mean is there some sort of a specific tyre characteristic other than these dimensions and the tyre pressure that I am overlooking :?
Official tyre sizes for this car are:
195/65 R15
215/55 R16


The tyres I currently roll are 2015 Barum Polaris 3 (195/65/15 91T), with 2.5bar pressure (though not measured completely cold, I'd have to admit..) AND the front right one will be replaced shortly (all of them for that matter) as I have a slight drag to the right. Could this be the culprit ?

I just bought new rims yesterday and waiting for my brand new set of tyres to arrive.
Rims are : 4x108, ET18, 6J, 15", 65mm central hole. (taken from a Peugeout to be frank - just loved the design and price :) )
The Tyres will be: Nexen Nblue 4S, 195/65/15 91T (I drive All Seasons tyres and change them every 3 years)

P.S. Sorry for butchering the English language here and there - am not quite native :)
Hell Razor5543
Donor 2023
Posts: 13727
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
Location: Reading
My Cars: C5 Mk2 VTX+ estate.
x 2993

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

OK, you are using the right size of tyres. In CitroJims' case he had a size mismatch (where not all of the tyres were of the same dimensions), and this 'confused' the suspension systems.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR

C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7445
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S
x 1752

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by white exec »

Is 2.5bar the correct pressure? Seems high. Check on the label on the door pillar (or owners's handbook, if you have it).
Chris
wbgenetic
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 07:57
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Citoren C5 / 2.2 Automatic / Estate (2005) || VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Project name: The Mothership

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wbgenetic »

Yes, 2.5 is the correct pressure for the estate...
wurlycorner
Posts: 1366
Joined: 30 Oct 2012, 22:37
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
My Cars: Two C5's...
Lots of CXs...
A couple of Xantia...
A C2...
Lots of Prelude's...
And a Sunny!
x 66
Contact:

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wurlycorner »

Yep, unloaded is 2.5 all round.
--
Iain

1x '85 CX GTi Turbo s1 (metallic blue)
2x '85 CX GTi Turbo s2 t1 (metallic silver & grey)
'88 CX GTi Turbo s2 T2 (metallic light blue)
CX DTR T2 Safari (silver)
2x '96 Xantia Activa (Black & metallic green)
'01 C5 2.0 HDi LX Estate (Blue)
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by Peter.N. »

My own experience is that the 6 sphere version rides really well but the 4 sphere one doesn't, even though I fitted new spheres and radius arm bearings, not so much a hard ride as 'pitching' on local road surfaces , OK on the motorway though.

As mentioned tyres play a large part in ride comfort, I get them with the softest tread and walls I can find, not concerned about road holding I don't drive fast enough.

I have had 7 or 8 XMs with all slightly different ride characteristics, why I don't know, I have a 2.5 in the field, not mine I hasten to add but it is the best riding XM I have ever driven and I have no idea why - only wish I did.

Peter
wbgenetic
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 07:57
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
My Cars: Citoren C5 / 2.2 Automatic / Estate (2005) || VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
Project name: The Mothership

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by wbgenetic »

yeah motorway is pretty good - but on rougher roads I have the feeling, that i.e. let tyre feels a bump I feel the bump. No noise but the car moves and I move inside along ... My expectation would be that the entire front would bounce left + right (sort of like the C6 does) and I would not feel the bump on the left per se, rather feel the magic carpet as the hydraulics settle the car afterwards ...
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: C5 - "The Mothership" project ... I want my magic carpet ride

Post by Peter.N. »

New centre spheres would most likely improve it as they are primarily responsible for the soft ride.

Peter
Post Reply