Test drove a ZX TD last night...

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tigerdj
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Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by tigerdj »

Hi Guys,

I've recently moved to Spain, used cars are very expensive here compared to the UK and from what I've seen nowhere near as well maintained! I'm after a cheap car and really struggling to find anything half decent.

I test drove a 96 Citroen ZX TD last night and was just looking for some opinions/advice as I've never driven one before and to be honest never driven a car with as high mileage.

The car had done approx 155k miles, owned by the same family from new but no service history... MOT equivalent until next July. It had recently had a new power steering pump, timing belt and water pump, alternator, battery and rear brakes.

Few issues on the test drive:

- Engine felt strong, no smoke at all, but at times I had my foot to the floor and it didn't really seem to shift? Didn't feel like the turbo particularly kicked in at 2.5k revs?
- There was a fair bit of play in the steering and the wheel felt like it wanted be over to the right (not sure if this is linked to the fitment of the new pump, or whether it needs new track rod ends/steering rack).
- The brakes were poor, so I'm assuming front brakes will just need new pads, or pads/discs - not sure why this wasn't done if the back was?
- It was the original clutch, it wasn't slipping but the biting point was a little high so I'm assuming this is likely to need doing at some point?

I'm leaning towards leaving it tbh, but part of me wonders if I'm expecting too much for the money out here... I guess the fact that the timing belt has been done is a plus point. Lack of history is a major concern as I know lack of regular coolant changes can cause HG issues, but then most cars here don't seem to have any history...

Any thoughts?
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by ekjdm14 »

On the history side of things, Id not worry too much since if the coolant has been neglected I would expect it to have eaten it's HG by 120-130k max. (and being in the same family I would *hope* their maintenance habits would be consistent down the life of the car)
If it's on a Lucas pump, the lack of kick may be down to the diaphragm in the boost compensator having split, easy enough fix. Also with either type of pump the line to the compensator/LDA may be split which would cause a similar problem. (Also if Bosch, it may have had the LDA turned down to make it cleaner for "MoT" purposes).

155k is not a huge mileage and should be at least the same again in it with proper maintenance.

Steeringwise, play in the steering is not so good and not linked to the pump either. Most likely a track rod end is loose although it's not inconceivable that the rack may be worn/damaged. I'd want to get under it and give both ends of either track rod a good wiggle with the wheels off the ground. Also the bottom suspension ball joints could cause this feeling too (although there'd likely be knocking over bumps with this)

Brakes were pretty poor on ours as well, as long as there's "meat" on the pads/discs and the pedal isn't spongy then likely won't improve hugely (spongy pedal would point to air in the system, maybe not bled properly last time?)

Clutch, 155k is a long innings for a clutch but I've known them go way further too. If it's heavy would be more of a concern since they get heavier as they wear out. Could just be the cable needs a bit more slack (ours was manual adjuster and too tight when we bought the car too).

Overall it depends how much exactly it is, compared to what other cars are going for. A lot of the important bits are recently done and these engines/boxes go on forever so weigh that against maybe less reliable other models. Over here I'd value something like that probably around the £200-225 marker, unsure what anyone else thinks or what cars are worth over there but overall, if the price of buying this car a set of front brakes and a clutch kit is similar to other seemingly more sound cars I'd likely go for it (depending on whether or not the rack was sound of course, I have a feeling it'll just be a ball joint but do check. Also make sure the PAS ram on the rack isn't leaking badly)
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
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'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
ekjdm14
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 1810
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
Location: Congleton
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by ekjdm14 »

I forgot to mention, the ZX is much undervalued over here but maybe not as much over there so perhaps £400 would be closer to it's "true" value against other similar models.

FWIW I loved ours, it was a really nice comfy yet nippy drive. Handling I would rate above pretty much all similar sized cars of the time (it's basically a 306 playing dress-up so if you've ever driven one of those? also helps with parts to be able to cross-ref them with the more common car)
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project :mrgreen:
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage :rofl2:
tigerdj
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by tigerdj »

Thankyou so much for your reply, that is really helpful!

The car is up for 1000 euros plus a 150 euro transfer fee... so quite a bit more than I was used to in the UK! For reference here's a link to the ad https://www.milanuncios.com/citroen-de-segunda-mano/citroen-zx-1-9-td-90-cv-226631168.htm The photos are pretty awful!

There's a link to every Citroen ZX diesel for sale in Spain here for comparison.

There's definitely nicer looking examples out there, I guess the advantage of this one is the work that it has had done. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to travel too far and as far as I understand it the transfer process is quite difficult unless you buy from a dealer so I'm hoping to get something nearby which limits my options.

I've not had the benefit of driving any other PSA diesels of a similar era so nothing to compare it to, but I did like the way it drove and the engine felt solid. Diesel makes sense here as it is a good 10c cheaper than petrol.

The clutch was possibly a little heavy, so I definitely think I would have to budget for that. Brakes wouldn't be too much of a concern then. Sounds like the steering is the biggest potential issue so will have to look into that further. I'm wondering if they may have damaged something when replacing the pump? There were no noises when I went over speed bumps so I think the suspension is all in good order, and the new timing belt means I don't have to worry about that for a while which is a bonus.

Prices here seem to bottom out at about 1000 euros, so I think any car I buy at the bottom end of the market is going to have problems and will more than likely need a new timing belt...
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by RichardW »

A 1.9 TD should go like a scalded cat once it is on boost. In fact a ZX TD is amusing in the power delivery stakes... nothing....nothing....nothing...whoooooosh! Oh, we're nearly in the hedge!!

These use the pull clutch, which is almost always heavy after a few miles. Very light when new though... I replaced the clutch in ours as it was so heavy it was doing my wife's back in. It's not tooo bad a job.
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by CitroJim »

One thing you need to do immediately upon acquiring any XUD engined vehicle is replace the cambelt and waterpump unless you have cast-ron proof that it's been done recently...

A belt going (and they can/do) will effectively kill the engine.

As noted, look after both the cooling system and cambelt and the XUD will go on for ever.

As Richard says, they do go very well...

I've just parted with my last XUD-powered car... A 1.9TD Xantia. It was brilliant :)
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by white exec »

On the cost front, the price of secondhand cars here in southern Spain is just ludicrous. Ten or fifteen year old medium-sized 4x4s can go for €10-15k, with anything legal, driveable and tested selling for €2k. RHD here means price will be a small fraction of LHD, and various outfits buy them up and ship them back to UK and elsewhere.

You can almost add a Zero to used UK prices, and call it Euros.
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by daviemck2006 »

CitroJim wrote: 05 Oct 2017, 16:21 One thing you need to do immediately upon acquiring any XUD engined vehicle is replace the cambelt and waterpump unless you have cast-ron proof that it's been done recently...

A belt going (and they can/do) will effectively kill the engine.

As noted, look after both the cooling system and cambelt and the XUD will go on for ever.

As Richard says, they do go very well...

I've just parted with my last XUD-powered car... A 1.9TD Xantia. It was brilliant :)

Wrong word Jim, it IS brilliant :) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by CitroJim »

daviemck2006 wrote: 05 Oct 2017, 19:36
CitroJim wrote: 05 Oct 2017, 16:21 One thing you need to do immediately upon acquiring any XUD engined vehicle is replace the cambelt and waterpump unless you have cast-ron proof that it's been done recently...

A belt going (and they can/do) will effectively kill the engine.

As noted, look after both the cooling system and cambelt and the XUD will go on for ever.

As Richard says, they do go very well...

I've just parted with my last XUD-powered car... A 1.9TD Xantia. It was brilliant :)

Wrong word Jim, it IS brilliant :) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quite right Davie :D Sorry for the incorrect statement! :oops:
Jim

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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by tigerdj »

Thanks again for all of your replies/help, I wasn't expecting such a big response!

I totally agree the prices here in Spain seem crazily high! It's not just the asking prices, but the condition of the cars. I appreciate I'm not looking to spend a huge amount but the vast majority I've seen for 2000 euros or less would be considered scrap or worth less than £500 in the UK! The other issue is the lack of detail in the adverts, most will have a few poor photos of the car with the age, model and mileage if you're lucky. There is usually no mention of when the next MOT is, what maintenance the car has had or when the timing belt is due. Even dealers seem bad for this, so it makes shortlisting cars time consuming!

It was definitely down on power then with no woosh effect! Best case scenario the boost has been turned down/pipe split, worst case scenario the turbo is faulty?

I'm still on the fence about the car, need to let the seller know today really... I'm tempted to hold out for something better with one or two less problems from the outset but I'm not sure realistically if I will get anything better for the money. Decisions, decisions!
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by white exec »

It isn't the prettiest example in the world, so maybe look for another?

Older cars here often don't get decently sorted after bumps, collisions and wear-and-tear. They can just get run to death, unloved. No wonder the government created the national ITV stations (=MoT) - backhanders and use of the commercial garage network would have been disastrous!

The lack of care for older cars explains the swift demise of Xantia. I think for many, the idea of having to spend real money on a car's suspension was just unthinkable. The consequences of this were obvious, of course, even if not to many owners.
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by CitroJim »

white exec wrote: 06 Oct 2017, 07:45 The lack of care for older cars explains the swift demise of Xantia. I think for many, the idea of having to spend real money on a car's suspension was just unthinkable. The consequences of this were obvious, of course, even if not to many owners.



Especially the Activa and their massive rate of attrition :( Not many at all left now and very much up to those of us who have one to do all we can to preserve them...
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Re: Test drove a ZX TD last night...

Post by tigerdj »

It is definitely a totally different attitude towards car ownership here! I think the reason most cars don't have service history is because they don't get serviced... I'm not sure if the ITV is less rigorous than the UK MOT but judging by the state of some of the cars I've seen I think it must be!

I agree it is definitely a shame when vehicles are scrapped when they could be saved but for a few new parts! One advantage here is the lack of rust which possibly keeps more cars on the road longer.

I decided against the car in the end, as you say it wasn't the best example and I think it could have needed a fair amount of work (which I wouldn't be able to DIY) to get it back up to standard. I'm not too bothered about the bodywork in a way (mechanics is the main thing) as it is sure to get bashed parking in the centre of towns, but it does perhaps suggest an owner who hasn't taken pride in their vehicle and may have skimped on maintenance as well.

So the search continues... Thanks again for all of your input! French cars are very popular here so I'm hoping there'll be a better example comes along soon.
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