Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

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StuY
Posts: 20
Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
Location: Geilo, Norway
My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]

Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by StuY »

Hi all,

I have a 2007 Partner with a 9HX 1.6 HDi engine, 148000 km (92k miles). It has a tendency to idle slightly uneven when cold, but apart from that seems to be pretty solid. I bought it 6 months ago and at that point it needed a new EGR valve and glow plugs, which I have done. Also it developed a leak on one injector, so I pulled that one to clean it up and replace the seals. Occasionally it has a hesitation, like a momentary shutdown of the engine, and I think this is associated with an intermittent P1639 fault (ECU supply relay open circuit). Anyway that is a separate issue I think. There are no other fault codes in Planet, and the continuous readings look OK to me e.g. no big injector trim values.

I recently drove it from Spain up to Scotland and on the way it developed a ticking noise from the top end, which came and went. Some journeys it would be bad, then it would sort itself out. I added a can of hydraulic lifter treatment in Portsmouth and hoped for the best. Once I got home, I drained the oil and dropped the sump to look for debris - didn't find anything and the strainer is clean and intact. I refilled with new oil and initially it was very rough and smoky, which improved with running. Basically the rough idle when cold seems to be worse. I removed the oil separator and found pitting/spalling on one of the exhaust cam lobes (actually the one under the filler cap). I talked to the mechanic at my local garage who we have known for 30 odd years and he said that he had seen worse cams, but if I was to give it to them then he would replace the whole head with a recon one. I was planning to do the timing belt anyway, so I removed the cam carrier to see how bad it was. All the other cam lobes seem in good condition, apart from the one adjacent to the bad one which has minute pitting (this is both exhaust cams on cyl 1, timing belt end of the engine).

I also found a foreign object in the cam case, a small spring which I pulled out intact and apparently undamaged. It was a retaining ball spring from the injector seat reaming tool I had used when replacing the injector seal and which popped out when I was using it. Oops.

The engine seems to be basically sound and is not burning oil. I changed the oil 5 months / 8000 km ago when I bought the car and have not had to top up at all since. Mostly motorway miles, with a bit of local use too.

At this point I'm not sure whether to just replace the exhaust camshaft along with the two hydraulic lifters and rockers/followers for cyl 1, plus probably the cam chain and tensioner ...or to replace the whole head. All of the cam followers seem to be in good condition and there is nothing obviously wrong with either of the lifters for the cyl 1 exhaust valves.

Any suggestions? :)
StuY
Posts: 20
Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
Location: Geilo, Norway
My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]

Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by StuY »

I should say that I found the rogue spring in the well below the bad cam lobe...
StuY
Posts: 20
Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
Location: Geilo, Norway
My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]

Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by StuY »

No one? :)

I'm replacing the exhaust camshaft, plus 2 lifters and rockers, along with the timing belt and water pump kit that I was doing anyway. Will see how that goes. Local guru reckons the most likely cause of the pitting is a bad camshaft from new. The original turbo is still going strong, so I'm going to assume the oiling is good and hope for the best.

The only tricky part of the disassembly was getting the injector studs / tower bolts out. The tiny torx splines are too weak and snap off, but it is possible to get them out with mole grips and some sweat...I don't have a 7(!) mm stud extractor. The charm is torx socket on top, plus mole grips on the thread - they come out easily like that.
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Stu

Couldn't contribute to your original dilemma, but can confirm that worn camshaft lobes and pitting of cam followers can be the source of rough idling/ misfires at low revs. The trouble codes thrown out tend to be "general Misfire", misfire cylinder X etc often leading down a fruitless electrical or fuel injection problem path.

Read loads and loads of threads (another manufacturer not Peug/Cit/Ren) virtually all without successful conclusions where the issue was tackled via a series of ever increasingly expensive "solutions" starting with replace plugs to replace coil pack/replace crankshaft position sensor/cam position sensor/air flow sensor/o2 sensor/injectors/inlet manifold/fuel pump/ECU/cylinder head/engine.

Believe me, unfortunate owners putting investigation of a simple misfire trouble code in the hands of the experts were often met with this escalating scale of expense.

When after reading all of this and unsuccessfully not being able to resolve this misfire issue myself, we got an independant gargae to look at it and do their diagnosis. I was fearing entering this route myself. When the report came back "worn cam lobes" I did think that's rubbish what on earth are they talking about, they have just taken the cash for the diagnosis, don't want the hassle of sorting it out on an older car, and said the first thing that came into their head.

I was wrong...paid £40 at a dismantler for parts, replaced the camshafts, and the rockers, took out every hydraulic lifter cleaned and lubricated them all and touchwood the engine is back to running as it should.

So, bit of a ramble but have confidence in what you have decided to do...looks the right option to me.

Did you buy new or second hand? The new option for me would have been just too expensive for the value of the car.

Regards Neil
Only One AA Box left
687 Trinity, Jersey
StuY
Posts: 20
Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
Location: Geilo, Norway
My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]

Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by StuY »

Good to know, thanks Neil. I went for new. Total cost for parts and fluids about £350 next day, not including the timing belt kit which I had anyway. The car is on a Spanish plate which means the value is immediately 2 or 3 times what it would be in the UK and changes the game a bit. Also the bodywork and undersides are in very good nick. I could have bought a scrap cam carrier and swapped its contents over into mine, but I'm supposed to be on holiday and I didn't want to use up all my time off waiting for stuff to be delivered from eBay. Although I suppose there are worse things to do on holiday than an in-situ head strip and rebuild... :-)
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Paul-R
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My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
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Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by Paul-R »

Like a shopping trip in town. Give me a proper spannering job any day.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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StuY
Posts: 20
Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
Location: Geilo, Norway
My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]

Re: Cam lobe pitting on 1.6 HDi

Post by StuY »

The camshaft swap seems to have been successful. Its still running rough when cold, but the top end racket is gone. The new timing belt is slightly noisy, but there is not a lot you can get wrong with the automatic tensioner so I'm hoping that it will quieten down as it runs in. Changing a wheel bearing has quietened things down, but also revealed other rumbles - as I knew it would having been through exactly the same thing with my 206! :-D
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